You may have a machine gun illegally if - Page 3

nutz4utwo · January 14th, 2008, 08:55 PM

What is the general policy for lending a firearm? Obviously, it's ok for others to shoot your guns while you are present...what about lending to someone and allowing them to take it out of your sight? Seems like a no no in most states.

Does lending a firearm constitute a legal transfer where a FFL must be involved?

friesepferd · January 14th, 2008, 09:45 PM

heard a talk show thing about this. forget where it was from. ill try and find it.
what a load of crap

nutz4utwo · January 14th, 2008, 09:51 PM

you can read the search warrant and some indictment papers at AR15.com. They have their own discussion going too:

AR15.COM :: Forums :: Topic :: Update on Berlin BATFE Raid

Some quotes from the indictment:

AFT "found that the selector switch moved through all three positions. I then inspected the bolt and observed that it had been field down. I then performed a functions check and found that the firearm functioned in all three positions, including the unmarked third position.

Kiernicki (the shooter) explained that Olofson (the lender) told him not to fire the weapon in three round burst because it might malfunction. Kiernicki decided to try the three round burst and fired it twice in that selection before it jammed

On November 6, 2006 a firearms enforcement officer with ATF test fired...used 60 rounds of commercially available .223 caliber ammunition. Three test were performed, each with twenty rounds of ammunition. When the selector switch was placed in the unmarked third position, the firearm fired all twenty rounds automatically in each of the three tests"

The indictment certainly makes it look like Olofson knew the rifle acted the way it did (malfunction or not). I can already poke a few holes ATF's story: Noticeably absent from their descriptions is any mention of an auto sear. Also, they discuss 3 round bursts a great deal, but state in their test that "the firearm fired all twenty rounds automatically in each of the three tests". That is obviously indicative of some sort of malfunction if it truly was a 3 round burst fire control group.

Word on the street is Olympic arms did a recall on some of the AR15's of this vintage because of fire control problems using commercial .223 ammunition. It seems this was not brought up during the trial.

Seems ATF decided Olofoson knew the firearm was capable of automatic fire (even though it was a malfunction?) and he continued to posses it, use it, and lend it.

Something is fishy in this whole story. I believe both AFT and the firearms community have been bending the truth a little. I do not think justice has been done. I vote mistrial.

armado · January 14th, 2008, 11:28 PM

Alcohol Tabacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

friesepferd · January 14th, 2008, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armado

Alcohol Tabacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

one of my fav quotes.
they sell a tshirt with that on it, i want it

glock21guy · January 15th, 2008, 12:48 AM

If only government agencies would use common sense. And for that mater every one.

If it dose not have full auto parts in it, it is not a full auto weapon, malfunction or not.

Shadowsbane · January 15th, 2008, 02:59 AM

I also read that the guy he loaned the weapon to was paid an "undiscolosed" amount for his testimony, which was inconistent with his previous accounts of the incident.

64zebra · January 23rd, 2008, 02:31 PM

hmmm, our government pays a citizen to testify against a member of our armed forces for having a rifle misfire

Golden Dragon · March 18th, 2008, 08:29 PM

Dudleys Diary: Freedom Under Fire - 2nd Amendment In Danger? (Part 2)

part ll this could be you or me!

Please take a moment to fill in the form at:
CNN.com - Contact Us
to send Lou Dobbs a thank you for being a gun owner, pro gun and
making sure that this kind of story gets out.

sui-juris · March 19th, 2008, 12:11 AM

JPFO.org had a nice interview w/an attny I believe it was that discussed this case in length. Actually, if you have an ipod you can get the podcasts for free.

I watched the interview w/Lou Dobbs and it really raised my opinion of him quite a bit. The whole deal is outrageous....

January 15th, 2008, 12:48 AM	#26
glock21guy Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 523	If only government agencies would use common sense. And for that mater every one. If it dose not have full auto parts in it, it is not a full auto weapon, malfunction or not. __________________ Aaron If you don't protect your self, who will?

January 15th, 2008, 02:59 AM	#27
Shadowsbane Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 592	I also read that the guy he loaned the weapon to was paid an "undiscolosed" amount for his testimony, which was inconistent with his previous accounts of the incident. __________________ Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

January 23rd, 2008, 02:31 PM	#28
64zebra VIP Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Panhandle of Texas Posts: 2,121	hmmm, our government pays a citizen to testify against a member of our armed forces for having a rifle misfire __________________ Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-March 2, 1836 HK45 G30\|21\|26\|17 XD9sc KeltecP11 Moss500 Ithaca37 Savage20ga\|15A .22\|'99 25-35 AK47 AR-15 Win30-30 MN-44 Rem66 GMBH67.22 If loose gun laws are good for criminals, why do criminals support gun control?

March 18th, 2008, 08:29 PM	#29
Golden Dragon Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 42	Freedom Under Fire - 2nd Amendment In Danger part ll Dudleys Diary: Freedom Under Fire - 2nd Amendment In Danger? (Part 2) part ll this could be you or me! Please take a moment to fill in the form at: CNN.com - Contact Us to send Lou Dobbs a thank you for being a gun owner, pro gun and making sure that this kind of story gets out. __________________ SASS LIFE LEAA BOLD#252 NRA LIFE RO I & II

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January 14th, 2008, 08:55 PM	#21
nutz4utwo Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 389	What is the general policy for lending a firearm? Obviously, it's ok for others to shoot your guns while you are present...what about lending to someone and allowing them to take it out of your sight? Seems like a no no in most states. Does lending a firearm constitute a legal transfer where a FFL must be involved?

January 14th, 2008, 09:45 PM	#22
friesepferd Distinguished Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: what used to be the state of Franklin (look it up) Posts: 1,719	heard a talk show thing about this. forget where it was from. ill try and find it. what a load of crap

January 14th, 2008, 09:51 PM	#23
nutz4utwo Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 389	you can read the search warrant and some indictment papers at AR15.com. They have their own discussion going too: AR15.COM :: Forums :: Topic :: Update on Berlin BATFE Raid Some quotes from the indictment: AFT "found that the selector switch moved through all three positions. I then inspected the bolt and observed that it had been field down. I then performed a functions check and found that the firearm functioned in all three positions, including the unmarked third position. Kiernicki (the shooter) explained that Olofson (the lender) told him not to fire the weapon in three round burst because it might malfunction. Kiernicki decided to try the three round burst and fired it twice in that selection before it jammed On November 6, 2006 a firearms enforcement officer with ATF test fired...used 60 rounds of commercially available .223 caliber ammunition. Three test were performed, each with twenty rounds of ammunition. When the selector switch was placed in the unmarked third position, the firearm fired all twenty rounds automatically in each of the three tests" The indictment certainly makes it look like Olofson knew the rifle acted the way it did (malfunction or not). I can already poke a few holes ATF's story: Noticeably absent from their descriptions is any mention of an auto sear. Also, they discuss 3 round bursts a great deal, but state in their test that "the firearm fired all twenty rounds automatically in each of the three tests". That is obviously indicative of some sort of malfunction if it truly was a 3 round burst fire control group. Word on the street is Olympic arms did a recall on some of the AR15's of this vintage because of fire control problems using commercial .223 ammunition. It seems this was not brought up during the trial. Seems ATF decided Olofoson knew the firearm was capable of automatic fire (even though it was a malfunction?) and he continued to posses it, use it, and lend it. Something is fishy in this whole story. I believe both AFT and the firearms community have been bending the truth a little. I do not think justice has been done. I vote mistrial.

January 14th, 2008, 11:28 PM	#24
armado Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Mexico Posts: 78	Alcohol Tabacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

March 19th, 2008, 12:11 AM	#30
sui-juris Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: MI Posts: 418	JPFO.org had a nice interview w/an attny I believe it was that discussed this case in length. Actually, if you have an ipod you can get the podcasts for free. I watched the interview w/Lou Dobbs and it really raised my opinion of him quite a bit. The whole deal is outrageous....