You can have my guns when you pry them from my cold, dead hands...or not. - Page 12

cdwolf · May 27th, 2008, 11:41 PM

Maybe some of our experts can tell me where it will stop

Slightly Used diesel for sale

...Anyone?

ETA: On topic.... I'm keeping my guns!!!!!!
These people are crazy! I have to stop reading the news.Our world is changing on many levels, and I don't think were on the way up...JMO

Rob99VMI04 · May 28th, 2008, 09:50 AM

Ay, fight and you may die, run and you'll live. At least a while. And dying in your beds many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one chance to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take our freedom--

Thats all I have to say about that!

enigmaone · May 28th, 2008, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atctimmy

A long time ago I swore an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution against ALL enemies foriegn and domestic. Even though I am no longer on active duty I still feel bound by that oath. I feel that during Katrina the police crossed to the side of the enemy. You may infer from that what you wish.

As it has been said......

Landor · May 28th, 2008, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdwolf

A little off topic but related, I have been a manager at a building supply place for many years in central MS. The day after Katrina Even up here it was a mess. I own 3 acres and lost 3 of my very large oaks, one took out my power a full hour before my neighborhood( I was without power for 8days) I had a generator but it was hard to get fuel. We cleared as many trees off the roads as we could, and I went straight to work! We had the P.D. there to stop people from coming in we were selling truckloads of generators, tarps, flashlights, all with out power. One of my employees come up to me and asked if I would come talk to a customer up front, O.K. I get up there there is a 72 year old man, he asked if I would walk outside (it was a madhouse inside). He was on the interstate with his 75 yearold wife and 2 10lb mutts when it hit. There were dents on all 4 corners of his car, people were pushing them out of the way on the interstate! He told me that he had run out of gas and asked if i knew where to get any? I had 4 5 gallon cans in my toolbox and two of them were full. He told me he was trying to get to his daughters in St. Louis, AUG. 30th in MS it was hot and his wife didn't look good. I went to my truck and gave him the 10 gallons I had and 3 gas cans. He tried to pay me 30 times, I told him to keep his money he still had a long way to go! All the gas stations were out of gas and when a truck rolled in there was a three to four hour wait in line and most were cash only with a $50.00 max. I asked one of my P.D. friends they had their own station set up for city cars. They let him fill up and fill all three of his cans! There were shootings at gas stations for three days and fuel was only short for about 5 days and I'm 4 hours inland and it missed us! It hit Gulfport come up thru hattiesburg, and thru meridian. I had a generator for my t.v, 1 lamp, 1 fan. I seen how people act up here, They would not have gotten my guns. We had a few crew's stake out our neighborhood, but soon got the message we were not sheep and left. Let somethig happen that shut's down fuel supply for more then 5 days and see what people will do.

WOW... scary story..

It reminds me of a saying from the movie The Mist.

"I trust people right up to the point where the lights go off and the machines quit working"

Kerbouchard · May 28th, 2008, 03:34 PM

Quote:

"I trust people right up to the point where the lights go off and the machines quit working"

Interesting point. Probably truer than I would wish it to be.

agentmel · May 28th, 2008, 05:53 PM

This is an interesting thread and a situation we may very well face in our lifetimes. I think our founders understood this dilemma perfectly. I think that the most proper (although probably most costly) response is the one originally mentioned. "You can have my guns when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers." Kerbouchard was almost right: there is nothing we can do in such a situation to prevent the unjust confiscation of our weapons... except be willing to employ those weapons against those doing the confiscating. What is the point of having arms otherwise? Our right to keep and bear arms becomes a paper tiger the moment we are unwilling to employ them in our defense. It is a sad day when most of us seem to have forgotten that our primary self-defense need is not against civilian theft or assault, but from goverment theft or assault.

I have never been robbed by a street criminal, yet I never fail to be robbed every paycheck. In fact, I'd rather be held up in a dark alley, because I carry. I'd have a fighting chance and the criminal could only take what I have now. Against theft by the gov't, I (alone) have no fighting chance and they continue to take every chance they get, meanwhile trying to make it seem legitimate. Additionally, even if the thief killed me, he'd only get what I had on me. The IRS will steal from me even after I'm dead.

Force perpetrated by the gov't (or its agents) is no different from force perpetrated by common street thugs and should be opposed by whatever means necessary. That said, passive opposition, as in hiding your guns and lying to the "authorities" may be the best option for the short term.

Our land has come a long way from what the signers of the Declaration intended.

Mel

Rescue1325 · May 28th, 2008, 06:19 PM

What guns? I aint got not guns...

edr9x23super · May 28th, 2008, 06:37 PM

I think a valid point has been raised by some posters regarding the "strength in numbers" theory. I know a friend who was in Rita's path, and they all got together in a 3-block area and decided to band together and look out for themselves. I was told that there were some 30 men and women, and any who did not have weapons were given loaners from neighbors who had extras. Since their subdivision was very small with one entrance and exit, they used a few cars to block the entrance/exit accordingly. They also posted a large visible sign at the entrance of their neighborhood warning all that only rescue/aid personnel were allowed through and any looters or criminals would be fired upon. My friend told me that luckily, no one tested their mettle, and the day after the storm, the Sheriffs' deputies came by and asked if any needed medical attention. They said no thanks, they were fine. They were then asked about weapons, which they dutifully displayed to the deputy who told them they should stick together and use them if they had to.

I guess it all boils down to what part of the country you live in....

Kerbouchard · May 29th, 2008, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agentmel

This is an interesting thread and a situation we may very well face in our lifetimes. I think our founders understood this dilemma perfectly. I think that the most proper (although probably most costly) response is the one originally mentioned. "You can have my guns when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers." Kerbouchard was almost right: there is nothing we can do in such a situation to prevent the unjust confiscation of our weapons... except be willing to employ those weapons against those doing the confiscating. What is the point of having arms otherwise? Our right to keep and bear arms becomes a paper tiger the moment we are unwilling to employ them in our defense. It is a sad day when most of us seem to have forgotten that our primary self-defense need is not against civilian theft or assault, but from goverment theft or assault.

I have never been robbed by a street criminal, yet I never fail to be robbed every paycheck. In fact, I'd rather be held up in a dark alley, because I carry. I'd have a fighting chance and the criminal could only take what I have now. Against theft by the gov't, I (alone) have no fighting chance and they continue to take every chance they get, meanwhile trying to make it seem legitimate. Additionally, even if the thief killed me, he'd only get what I had on me. The IRS will steal from me even after I'm dead.

Force perpetrated by the gov't (or its agents) is no different from force perpetrated by common street thugs and should be opposed by whatever means necessary. That said, passive opposition, as in hiding your guns and lying to the "authorities" may be the best option for the short term.

Our land has come a long way from what the signers of the Declaration intended.

Mel

Great Post Mel. It's amazing how easy it is to forget WHY the framers of our Constitution included that pesky 2nd Amendment, even though they knew it would weaken the government's power. And you are right about how much our government has evolved and strengthened for the 'common good'.

dang.45 · May 29th, 2008, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerbouchard

...And you are right about how much our government has evolved and strengthened for the 'common good'.

Ugh. I absolutely detest that phrase - "common good". The "common good" can go take a flying leap when it starts to infringe upon my fundamental rights. Of course, being the 'kooky' libertarian that I am, I agree 110% with agentmel on the whole taxes = theft issue. No man has the right to initiate force against another, and if you don't think your taxes are taken from you under the threat of force, just try not paying them for a while...

The Declaration of Independence mentions something about the rights of Life, Liberty, & the Pursuit of Happiness. When the government takes away the tools I need to protect my "right to Life", then they are effectively taking away my Liberty to protect that right. So long as the DoI is still considered a 'founding document' of this country, I will not give up my weapons under any circumstances. And if it isn't any longer, I'm sure I will have died taking up arms to defend it.

But hey, I am a kooky, wacky libertarian after all. Principles can be a b!T@# some times!

May 27th, 2008, 11:41 PM	#111
cdwolf Distinguished Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: MS Posts: 1,669	Maybe some of our experts can tell me where it will stop Slightly Used diesel for sale...Anyone? ETA: On topic.... I'm keeping my guns!!!!!! These people are crazy! I have to stop reading the news.Our world is changing on many levels, and I don't think were on the way up...JMO __________________ GUN CONTROL= I WANT TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE GUN A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

May 28th, 2008, 09:50 AM	#112
Rob99VMI04 Distinguished Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: ABOVE is the FOOTPRINT of a common american CHICKEN Posts: 1,661	Ay, fight and you may die, run and you'll live. At least a while. And dying in your beds many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one chance to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take our freedom-- Thats all I have to say about that! __________________ "You may find me one day dead in a ditch somewhere. But by God, you'll find me in a pile of brass." - Trooper M. Padgett "When seconds count.....Cops Respond in Minutes"

May 28th, 2008, 05:53 PM	#116
agentmel Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: FL Posts: 310	This is an interesting thread and a situation we may very well face in our lifetimes. I think our founders understood this dilemma perfectly. I think that the most proper (although probably most costly) response is the one originally mentioned. "You can have my guns when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers." Kerbouchard was almost right: there is nothing we can do in such a situation to prevent the unjust confiscation of our weapons... except be willing to employ those weapons against those doing the confiscating. What is the point of having arms otherwise? Our right to keep and bear arms becomes a paper tiger the moment we are unwilling to employ them in our defense. It is a sad day when most of us seem to have forgotten that our primary self-defense need is not against civilian theft or assault, but from goverment theft or assault. I have never been robbed by a street criminal, yet I never fail to be robbed every paycheck. In fact, I'd rather be held up in a dark alley, because I carry. I'd have a fighting chance and the criminal could only take what I have now. Against theft by the gov't, I (alone) have no fighting chance and they continue to take every chance they get, meanwhile trying to make it seem legitimate. Additionally, even if the thief killed me, he'd only get what I had on me. The IRS will steal from me even after I'm dead. Force perpetrated by the gov't (or its agents) is *no different* from force perpetrated by common street thugs and should be opposed by whatever means necessary. That said, passive opposition, as in hiding your guns and lying to the "authorities" may be the best option for the short term. Our land has come a long way from what the signers of the Declaration intended. Mel __________________ "There's nothing special about 50% plus one." - David Heleniak "Any government that employs three million people, most of them armed to the teeth, ought to be distrusted to an enormous degree." - Lew Rockwell

May 28th, 2008, 06:19 PM	#117
Rescue1325 Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 22	What guns? I aint got not guns... __________________ The 2nd Amendment: America's first Homeland Security

May 28th, 2008, 06:37 PM	#118
edr9x23super Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 971	I think a valid point has been raised by some posters regarding the "strength in numbers" theory. I know a friend who was in Rita's path, and they all got together in a 3-block area and decided to band together and look out for themselves. I was told that there were some 30 men and women, and any who did not have weapons were given loaners from neighbors who had extras. Since their subdivision was very small with one entrance and exit, they used a few cars to block the entrance/exit accordingly. They also posted a large visible sign at the entrance of their neighborhood warning all that only rescue/aid personnel were allowed through and any looters or criminals would be fired upon. My friend told me that luckily, no one tested their mettle, and the day after the storm, the Sheriffs' deputies came by and asked if any needed medical attention. They said no thanks, they were fine. They were then asked about weapons, which they dutifully displayed to the deputy who told them they should stick together and use them if they had to. I guess it all boils down to what part of the country you live in.... __________________ "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode