edr9x23super

Jagger, you sound sort of liberal or revisionist in your interpretation of the second amendment. As far as the "will of the legislator: goes, I have only to read the writings and personal diaries of such men to know their intent.

And as far as "ordinary people" are concerned, ordinary folks back then knew the intents of the Bill of Rights very clearly too. After all, they grew up living under the boot of a tyrant.

99% of the time when I hear someone talk about constitutional language as having hidden meanings, or being "a living document" that can change over time they are liberals who treat our liberties as negotiable items at the whim of the next generation.

By the language of your post and the number of posts you have made, we all pretty much know where you stand and why you are here.

__________________
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

Jagger

We probably won't correctly ascertain the will of the lawmakers at the time the Constitution was made, by using Scalia's method of interpretation, because it probably isn't the one the lawmakers had in mind when they made the Constititon.

Jagger

At the time the Constitution was made, there was well established law regarding how to go about ascertaining the will of the lawmakers at the time they made the legal instrument being interpreted. Don't you think it would be advisable to use those objective rules and principles of legal interpretatione, instead of cherry picking statements from writings and personal diaries based on nothing more than the fact that they square with your personal views?

SIGguy229

Maybe you are right...but the writings (letters, diaries) and other documents like the Federalist papers are all we have to go on. That said, why would they write one thing in a private letter or diary...and have similiar thoughts or feelings published for everyone to read, yet believe something totally opposite?

Since you joined yesterday, being that this is the ONLY thread you've posted in throughout DC.com, I'm thinking you are trolling for a dispute. I think you are making excuses to justify how the 2A has been misinterpreted in the last 60 years.

Put in a historical context, why would a new government founded by fighting for liberty allow the government to limit the people...?

To borrow a quote: Gun control is not about guns...it is about control.

Want to reduce "gun crimes"? Reduce criminals. Otherwise, I believe any gun control laws, before they go into effect, should see if they pass the "shall not be infringed"-test.

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martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter

paramedic70002

Here's a thought. Scalia/Heller says that it's OK to ban guns in schools. Not colleges or universities, but schools. The difference, other than children v. adults? Dorms! Citizens cannot be deprived of self defense in the home. I think college carry/possession bans should be challenged just as forcefully as Chicago and New York.

Found this tidbit where a college says Heller doesn't matter:

The News-Gazette.com: Supreme Court ruling has no effect on campus gun ban

Supreme Court ruling has no effect on campus gun ban
By Christine Des Garennes
Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:06 AM CDT

E-mail Story Printer-friendly

Bring a gun to the Illini Union, a dorm, or elsewhere on the University of Illinois campus and you'll be slapped with a class A misdemeanor.

University policy, student code, not to mention state law, bars handguns, rifles and weapons like knives from campus.
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But after the U.S. Supreme Court's 5-4 ruling last month on gun ownership, which overturned a Washington, D.C., handgun ban, questions have been raised about the implications for some college gun policies around the country. However, according to the UI, nothing in the Supreme Court ruling brings the university's regulations into question.

"The Supreme Court made a pretty strong statement that was intended to forestall people from making challenges to reasonable regulations such as ours," UI spokeswoman Robin Kaler said. "Saying you don't want to have weapons on a school campus did not come into question at all" in the Supreme Court's recent ruling, she said.

The ruling, written by Justice Antonin Scalia, stated that the opinion "should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms."

The university's gun policy was drafted in accordance with state statute which prohibits weapons on property that is "supported in whole or in part with state funds or federal funds administered or granted through state agencies."

"It seems to have worked very well," said UI Interim Police Chief Jeff Christensen about the policy. "There have been very few violations on university property."

In the last five years the university has had 14 incidents in which police have made arrests for unlawful possession of a weapon. Seven of those incidents involved guns. The majority of people arrested were not students, and many of the guns were confiscated during traffic stops, Christensen said.

He called the policy "a nice tool for us." For example, in 2006 police were called to investigate a person acting suspiciously at the Illini Union. Turns out the suspect, not a student, had a knife in his backpack.

"Most states have laws regulating the presence of guns in government buildings," said Jim Vinopal, past president of and currently a lobbyist for the Illinois State Rifle Association.

Since the Supreme Court's ruling, the association has challenged Chicago's gun ban, but Vinopal said he is not aware of any recent challenges to the state ban of guns in government buildings and on college campuses.

"The bigger issue of course is the municipalities," Vinopal said. "The cities where there are outright bans, those ordinances are being challenged," he said.

One place where guns are allowed at the University of Illinois is the shooting range at the Police Training Institute. And that is where the Illini on Target, the UI's rifle and pistol shooting club, will sometimes meet.

"We just don't bring guns on campus," said Andrew White, president of Illini on Target. Club members store their guns off campus and meet in a parking lot or elsewhere before heading out for a shooting trip.

White said he'd support a change in the policy, calling it "a little annoyance" when club members, particularly those who live in dorms, have to find a place to store their guns off campus, but he's not actively lobbying for a change in state law.

In recent months, before the Supreme Court ruling, and after the shootings at Northern Illinois University, some students on other college campuses have begun calling for the right to carry concealed weapons on campus.

The group Students for Concealed Carry on Campus drew attention for its agenda of supporting – in several states, but not in Illinois – legislation that would allow concealed handgun license holders to bring concealed guns to college campuses.

"With Illinois, there's a long way to go to see concealed carry," said Michael Guzman, president of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, a student at Texas State University from San Marcus, Texas.

Illinois and Wisconsin are the two states that do not have any concealed carry laws

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Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

stanislaskasava

Off topic:

If we use your method of interpretation, what do these words mean:

What does the Second Amendment mean to you? I repeat myself because I think you're uncomfortable with the words having an absolute meaning. You prefer to push them into a murky grey area until they mean nothing.

Do you prefer grey area in all things? If you are open minded enough, go to a local shooting range and rent a 22. Follow the safety rules and have some fun.

Once you become comfortable handling and shooting firearms (as the founding fathers were), and realize that guns are not inherently evil, the true meaning of the Second Amendment will be revealed to you in a dream.

Anubis

DC rejects Dick Heller's application to register.

WUSA9.com | Washington, DC | DC Rejects Handgun Application

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gddyup

Here we go. Get out your popcorn!

I had been wondering what type of firearm Heller was going to try and register. This could get interesting...

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My own piece of the web... The Right of Defense

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Benthic

Already running here.

Brian

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Bob The Great

a 1911, from the sound of it. Semi-auto with a 7rd magazine.

This is just too good. You seriously could not make this stuff up.

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"A well-educated electorate, being necessary to the continuance of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed."
Is this hard to understand? Then why does it get unintelligible to some people when 5 little words are changed?