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Second Amendment Discussion & News We all know people that are "anti-gun". Make your best argument, post statistics, stories, etc that may help state why legal gun ownership is a good thing. Help us all by posting only accurate information.

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Old July 18th, 2008, 07:05 PM   #571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagger View Post
The methodology of interpretation used by Justice Antonin Scalia in the Heller opinion is probably not that which the lawmakers intended for him to use. Scalia states that he will interpret the text of the Second Amendment according to the "normal and ordinary" meanings that would been given it by "ordinary citizens in the founding generation."

Anyone knowledgeable of the common law in America in the late 1700's knows that it was well established law that the goal or object of interpreting laws was "the will of the legislator", not the understanding of "ordinary citizens." (See Blackstone's commentary on the "interpretation of laws" in his famous Commentaries on the Laws of England.)

Thomas Jefferson was a lawyer and would have known what the object of interpreting a law was when the Second Amendment was made. He was preaching it in 1812 to the Governor of Virginia.
The... maxims of the bench, to seek the will of the legislator and his words only, are proper... for judicial government.

--Thomas Jefferson to James Barbour, 1812. ME 13:128
So how would the legislators make their will known other than by using plain language as it was understood by the common people? Are you saying that all of the legislation of that time was written in a secret code that only the legislators themselves and other members of their secret handshake club would understand?
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Old July 21st, 2008, 06:45 AM   #572
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Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
DC rejects Dick Heller's application to register.

WUSA9.com | Washington, DC | DC Rejects Handgun Application
So, he's trying to register a low capacity machine gun in DC's eyes? You know there are some revolvers that hold more than 7 rounds also..........
I wonder how fast they could get back into Federal court with this one? These idiots will probably lose(again) at circuit court and want to appeal again to SCOTUS. They'll probably want to keep it on the slow track also since they know it won't pass muster ANYWHERE anymore.
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Old August 8th, 2008, 12:12 PM   #573
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Originally Posted by stanislaskasava View Post
It seems from the tone of your post that you don't believe the Second Amendment was intended to protect an individual right to keep and bear arms.
I don't claim to know what the Amendment was intended to do. However, I do claim, based on the historical evidence generated as the Constitution was been made, that the lawmakers didn't write the Constitution and ratify it with the understanding it would be interpreted by applying the principle of construction espoused by Justice Scalia.


*****************


Justice Scalia’s Methodology Of Constitutional Interpretation Is Just An Excuse For His Judicial Activism

In the excerpt below, from the U. S. Supreme Court's opinion in the case of D. C. v. Heller, authored by Justice Scalia, the notorious judicial activist announces his intention to follow a rule of constitutional construction which dictates that the words of the Constitution should be understood in the sense of their normal and ordinary use by ordinary citizens of the founding generation.
The Second Amendment provides: “A well regulated
Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the
right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be
infringed.” In interpreting this text, we are guided by the
principle that “[t]he Constitution was written to be understood
by the voters; its words and phrases were used in
their normal and ordinary as distinguished from technical
meaning.” United States v. Sprague, 282 U. S. 716, 731
(1931); see also Gibbons v. Ogden, 9 Wheat. 1, 188 (1824).
Normal meaning may of course include an idiomatic
meaning, but it excludes secret or technical meanings that
would not have been known to ordinary citizens in the
founding generation...

Scalia is incompetent. The Constitution wasn't made with the lawmaker's understanding that it would be interpreted according to the normal and ordinary use of words by ordinary citizens of the founding generation.

John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the U. S. Supreme Court, knew that there were well established common law rules of interpretation and that they applied to the U. S. Constitution.

The question now before us renders it necessary to pay particular attention to that part of the second section which extends the judicial power "to controversies between a State and citizens of another State." It is contended that this ought to be construed to reach none of these controversies excepting those in which a State may be plaintiff. The ordinary rules for construction will easily decide whether those words are to be understood in that limited sense.

--John Jay in his opinion in Chisholm v. Georgia (1793)
Scalia need to quit the Court, go back to law school and learn the fundamentals of the common law at the time the Constitution was made.
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Old August 8th, 2008, 12:18 PM   #574
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Originally Posted by stanislaskasava View Post
The word 'Because' is only used to clarify the meaning of the amendment for people unfamiliar with archaic English. The so-called rephrasing doesn't change the meaning -- it just makes it plainly clear with modern grammar.
You can't properly rephrase language until you properly interpret it. You will never ascertain the will of the lawmakers unless you apply the rules of construction they assumed, understood and took for granted would be used for that purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edr9x23super View Post
as the "will of the legislator: goes, I have only to read the writings and personal diaries of such men to know their intent.
Under the well established common law rules of construction, there was an objective method of ascertaining the will of the lawmakers. It did not include a rule about reading the writings and personal diaries of anyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edr9x23super View Post
ordinary folks back then knew the intents of the Bill of Rights very clearly too.
Maybe they did, or maybe they didn't. Either way, there was a well established common law method of interpreting laws and the lawmakers took for granted that they applied to the Constitution.

Quote:
99% of the time when I hear someone talk about constitutional language as having hidden meanings, or being "a living document" that can change over time they are liberals who treat our liberties as negotiable items at the whim of the next generation.
When I see Scalia, and his pinko fellow travelers on the Court, interpreting the Constitution according to their personal views instead of applying the well established common law method of interpreting laws existent at the time the Constitution was made, I know they're going to legislate from the bench.
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