Disckson City, PA steal gun and violate 2nd amendment as well as other laws! - Page 2

gnbrotz · May 11th, 2008, 05:20 PM

I was not at this gathering, but I have met a couple of them, and know Rich quite well. Most who were OCing complied with officers' illegal demands to produce ID and surrender their weapons to have serial numbers checked. Rich did not. Those who were concealing presented their LTCF, as is required by law.

There was one other firearm that the police attempted to confiscate as well. The owner had received it as a gift from his wife, and when ran, came up in her name. The officer told him that the gun would not be returned to him because it was not "registered" in his name (and he could not legally possess it), despite his indication of applicable laws making such a statement meaningless.

He re-entered the restaurant and informed his wife what had happened. She went outside and demanded that the gun be returned to her, since they were insisting she was the "registered owner". They returned the firearm to her.

TacticalCompact · May 11th, 2008, 05:22 PM

Sounds to me like the people with "no respect for authority" were wearing uniforms. Authority is not a person, or people. Authority is power, which is held by people. The people holding such authority are supposed to respect that authority even moreso than those they hold said authority over.

Refusing to cooperate with an illegal search and seizure is certainly not indicative of such a lack of respect for authority. Conducting one, however, is.

I hope this turns out well for whoever was in the right. From what I've read, it was clearly not the police.

kpw · May 11th, 2008, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SelfDefense

Bingo.

Some people have no respect for authority and they often act out to their detriment and embarrassment.

True, often enough. In this case, they were all guilty of suspiciously eating dinner in public.

Btw, welcome Greg.

gnbrotz · May 11th, 2008, 05:48 PM

Thanks for the welcome kpw. I've been lurking on and off since last November, but don't post often since I don't conceal often.

DPro.40 · May 11th, 2008, 05:59 PM

I think this will be a very interesting thread to follow. I agree that I see no cop bashing in this posting. Reporting is not bashing. If the PA law reads open carry is legal, then there is a great deal of people out there unaware of the law as written. On the other hand, in Missouri, open carry is also legal but. I would no more consider open carry in the city of St Louis unless I want by Sig confiscated and had my bail money in pocket. Sometimes you just have to determine if being the test pilot is worth it. I can CCW so thats what I do instead. Thats why I got a CCW license. Please don't confuse my view point with acceptance of lack of understanding of the law thats supposed to be enforced by those who are suppose to know. Like the manager of the restaurant said,"There was not a problem until you showed up." How can you argue with that?

1911packer · May 11th, 2008, 06:20 PM

The appropriate RKBA groups need to lean on this one very hard and keep the publicity up so the bad attitude of one LEO can serve as a lesson.

If a LEO asks to see my firearms license, I don't think I would have a problem producing it. I would then expect it to end at that.

Pro2A · May 11th, 2008, 07:36 PM

I know and have met Rich personally. He is a member of the PAFOA forum. We have been to several OC events together, and we also went to the PA State capital 2nd Amendment Rally together. I am outraged that this happened. I for one will be by him 100% as he is a person who stands by the Bill of Rights, and won't back down when confronted.He really knows his stuff and really stood his ground when arrested.

The guy at the end is Greg Rotz. Another good friend of mine, he was the one that had his LTCF revoked for OCing into a polling place last November. He got it back after a court battle.

gnbrotz · May 11th, 2008, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro2A

The guy at the end is Greg Rotz. Another good friend of mine.....

Wow, you must not have much of a reputation here if you're willing to admit being a friend of mine.

Pro2A · May 11th, 2008, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnbrotz

Wow, you must not have much of a reputation here if you're willing to admit being a friend of mine.

Ya I have to choke down a few lines sometimes to get rep

tabsr · May 11th, 2008, 11:19 PM

Some believe that by leagally open carry, we are upsetting those power officials, maybe becoming sheep and submitting!! The law is the law that all should follow including badge holders. Fight for your rights or loose them. I am disgusted by the incident and the rights violation should be in the courts. Hope you guys sue them.

May 11th, 2008, 05:59 PM	#15
DPro.40 Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Missouri Posts: 99	I think this will be a very interesting thread to follow. I agree that I see no cop bashing in this posting. Reporting is not bashing. If the PA law reads open carry is legal, then there is a great deal of people out there unaware of the law as written. On the other hand, in Missouri, open carry is also legal but. I would no more consider open carry in the city of St Louis unless I want by Sig confiscated and had my bail money in pocket. Sometimes you just have to determine if being the test pilot is worth it. I can CCW so thats what I do instead. Thats why I got a CCW license. Please don't confuse my view point with acceptance of lack of understanding of the law thats supposed to be enforced by those who are suppose to know. Like the manager of the restaurant said,"There was not a problem until you showed up." How can you argue with that? __________________ "Freedom is never more than one generation from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same." - Ronald Reagan DPro.40

May 11th, 2008, 06:20 PM	#16
1911packer Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Georgia Posts: 336	The appropriate RKBA groups need to lean on this one very hard and keep the publicity up so the bad attitude of one LEO can serve as a lesson. If a LEO asks to see my firearms license, I don't think I would have a problem producing it. I would then expect it to end at that. __________________ Observations on Political and Social Insanity

May 11th, 2008, 07:36 PM	#17
Pro2A Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Franklin County Pennsylvania Posts: 701	I know and have met Rich personally. He is a member of the PAFOA forum. We have been to several OC events together, and we also went to the PA State capital 2nd Amendment Rally together. I am outraged that this happened. I for one will be by him 100% as he is a person who stands by the Bill of Rights, and won't back down when confronted.He really knows his stuff and really stood his ground when arrested. The guy at the end is Greg Rotz. Another good friend of mine, he was the one that had his LTCF revoked for OCing into a polling place last November. He got it back after a court battle. __________________ America - The Constitutionalist Free Republic

May 11th, 2008, 11:19 PM	#20
tabsr Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts: 181	Authority Some believe that by leagally open carry, we are upsetting those power officials, maybe becoming sheep and submitting!! The law is the law that all should follow including badge holders. Fight for your rights or loose them. I am disgusted by the incident and the rights violation should be in the courts. Hope you guys sue them. __________________ "Politicians and Bureaucrats, depend very much on the complicity of their victims, and like criminals, are flummoxed when we don't play the victim role."

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

May 11th, 2008, 05:20 PM	#11
gnbrotz New Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Chambersburg, PA Posts: 4	I was not at this gathering, but I have met a couple of them, and know Rich quite well. Most who were OCing complied with officers' illegal demands to produce ID and surrender their weapons to have serial numbers checked. Rich did not. Those who were concealing presented their LTCF, as is required by law. There was one other firearm that the police attempted to confiscate as well. The owner had received it as a gift from his wife, and when ran, came up in her name. The officer told him that the gun would not be returned to him because it was not "registered" in his name (and he could not legally possess it), despite his indication of applicable laws making such a statement meaningless. He re-entered the restaurant and informed his wife what had happened. She went outside and demanded that the gun be returned to her, since they were insisting she was the "registered owner". They returned the firearm to her.

May 11th, 2008, 05:22 PM	#12
TacticalCompact Ex Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Nevada Posts: 321	Sounds to me like the people with "no respect for authority" were wearing uniforms. Authority is not a person, or people. Authority is power, which is held by people. The people holding such authority are supposed to respect that authority even moreso than those they hold said authority over. Refusing to cooperate with an illegal search and seizure is certainly not indicative of such a lack of respect for authority. Conducting one, however, is. I hope this turns out well for whoever was in the right. From what I've read, it was clearly not the police.

May 11th, 2008, 05:48 PM	#14
gnbrotz New Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Chambersburg, PA Posts: 4	Thanks for the welcome kpw. I've been lurking on and off since last November, but don't post often since I don't conceal often.