jcheinaman

The guys are going to th local town meeting. It seems some of them are on the Corbett radio show. If you want to listen click the link then click listen now.

WILK-FM - State Smoking Ban Hits A Bump

Kerbouchard

Listening to it now...thanks for the link!

Edited to Add: So far it doesn't sound very Pro 2A.

Edited again to Add: I take back my thanks...I did some reading on his website and this guy, Corbett, is a rabid anti and listening to the outrageous spin he puts on this is, well, outrageous.

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Who is John Galt?

jcheinaman

Yeah. I'm listening now. He is very anti. Everything they have brought up has already been covered by the pa supreme court. Local news stations have been there taking little bits but I can't get them here.

Kerbouchard

Divide and Conquer.
I hate to hear these (supposed)gun owners and gun rights advocates calling in and supporting Corbett's opinion.

He just spouted the 'responsible' legislation argument. And that gun owners are calling in against the ominous presence of a gun.

He is also saying that 'average' people cannot understand the law or the constitution and that you need a law degree to interpret it, and who are we 'commoners' to try to interpret it.

Ughhh! I'm going to have to take a shower after this broadcast, but it's like the 'phenomenon' of a train wreck...I just can't stop listening.

__________________
Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.

http://miscmusings.townhall.com/

Who is John Galt?

jcheinaman

You and me both brother. And I want to rip my hair out!

edr9x23super

I predict that this is going to be one of those test cases if we get a positive ruling from SCOTUS under the Heller case. The NRA should be all over this one....

And yes, I agree with the previous poster regarding "the big lawsuit", and seizure of property.



This is one reason why I will never open carry, except during a natural disaster like Katrina, etc. and then it will be a rifle or shotgun. The handgun wil always be tucked away out of sight. Now, I am not against those that open carry in any way, and my heart goes out to those people who were accosted by the police, but sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.......

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"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

SelfDefense

Since so many jumped on my previous comments I will respond in this one post rather than address each individually. (That, and I don't have access to the multiquote feature.)

First, if the facts of the case are complete and unbiased (which we know they are not) then the police were not sufficiently aware of the law and they should get further training.

Second, open carrying a firearm just begs for attention and some of it will be negative. Many consider open carry to be tactically inferior to concealed carry and that is not beside the point though I will not expand on that topic. So, the group received the attention they crave and the police was called.

Here is where the problem begins. Even from the one sided report we find that at least one of the gentlemen refused to comply with an innocuous request for identification. Why? For EXACTLY the same reason he was open carrying to begin with: to make a statement. Sounds just like the guy at the Border Patrol checkpoint that everyone considered a jerk (and someone videotaping to boot!)

What we don't know is that perhaps there was a bank robbery and the suspect was described as open carrying a firearm. What we do know is that refusing a simple request gives LEO reasonable suspicion. I simply can't imagine not providing my identification if requested by a law enforcement officer. My guess is that the folks dining became more belligerent as the encounter deteriorated.

I think the people got exactly what they wanted. Their guns were noticed, they received publicity and they made their statement (You're not the boss of me!) Even the short detention is some sort of badge of honor. Let's sue!

The bottom line is that this type of behavior is detrimental to out rights as gun owners. This incident does not make antis more supportive of our cause. The contrary is true. This makes gun owners seem like uncooperative rights fanatics, disregarding authority and causing a scene. All because something is not illegal does not make it right.

And if Kerbouchard's review of the town meeting is any indication, this fiasco does nothing more than to motivate the antis to further restrict our rights.

If the open carriers would have cooperated with police none of this would likely have occurred. I have absolutely no sympathy here.

Kerbouchard

It is my understanding a group of guys from an internet forum got together and had dinner. I have had the privilege of doing the same thing from this forum and I was not trying to 'receive any attention'. Possibly it was agenda driven...I don't know.
Not everyone thought he was a jerk. I thought it was funny.
I don't know what happened at the town meeting. That 'clown' of a radio host got off the air before the meeting commenced. I only was only commenting on what was going on during his radio broadcast before the event.

Disclaimer: I 'liberally edited'(i.e. picked and choosed sentences to respond to) several of SelfDefense's comments(in his quoted response) that I couldn't think of a good response for and possibly phrases or even sentences that might make him right in this matter. I have no remorse for this action as SD, quoted in complete context, is difficult to dispute.

__________________
Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.

http://miscmusings.townhall.com/

Who is John Galt?

JD

So....

One question, if Lima, Chooie and I all go out to dinner together which we often do, and we go to a place that serves alcohol (which we often do) and we are REQUIRED BY LAW to open carry (which we do) if we choose to carry in the restaurant, are we doing so just to draw attention to ourselves?

If we were to have a VA members dinner in a place that serves alcohol, we would be REQUIRED BY LAW to carry openly if we so chose to carry in the establishment, would that be to draw attention to ourselves?

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BLARG! My DefCarry Blog.

kpw

Your and my feelings about the tactical worth of open carry doesn't really matter here. Does this group seek attention? Sure. It's called raising awareness. It's not the only way they do it but it is an effective one. Do they expect the possibillity of negative attention? Sure they do. That's why they studied the laws and can cite them so well. Negative attention would be on the order of the police showing up. It's the officer's actions after their arrival that starts the problem.

The problem begins when the responding officers order everyone outside instead of just talking to them like citizens. They were eating dinner, not rallying at the courthouse steps or marching down main street. The gentleman that refused to comply was well within his right. He was not holding up traffic or causing a disturbance. He just refused to comply with an unlawful demand. He stood his ground and it's his ground to stand no matter what you or I may think of it.

No bank robbery suspect open carrying. Just a bunch of regular folks eating dinner. Refusing an unlawful command does not give them reasonable suspicion but it does make them angry. Because you can't imagine not showing your identity papers doesn't mean everyone is comfortable with that notion wether it seems innocuous to you or not.

I think they would have prefered the police to uphold the laws and let them eat in peace. Believe me, there is NOTHING that makes antis more supportive of our cause. If anything, seeing people go about their everyday lives while openly armed can help to persuade those that have been inundated with negative media about gun owners. Remember what the manager said about the problem not starting until the police showed up. The responding officers are the ones that caused the scene.

That's what the antis say about gun ownership in general.