archer51

I believe LA, Chicago and DC have all tried similar programs. I don't believe anyone of them met with much success. If they came to my door they would be turned away immediately. If they returned with a search warrant they could come in, but I know of a DA and judge that would be answering what was the "probable cause" that lead to the warrant.

dcb188

Why would you turn them away immediately? They are not demanding to come in, they are asking if it is okay to look for illegal weapons that your son might have. If you are inner-city and it is likely that your son does have one, and there is an ironclad agreement that no prosecutions would or could ensue, why would you not want to get an illegal gun off the street? You wouldn't know if your son had one or not, but if he was a gangbanger and you had no control over him, why would you not let them in to look around with your permission?
What if it were a group of 3 civilians appointed by the Mayor and they came to your door and said, you may not have heard but there is a big big problem in this city with illegal guns? and the rest of it. Would that be different?
And if it were police and they had a search warrant, there would be no doubt that they could and would come in, whether they were allowed in or not.
Why do you think people do not want illegal guns sought out and found?
Does a consent search really violate their rights? Not their constitutional rights, so what rights would it violate? Privacy? To ask you if they could come in, would that be a violation in and of itself, just asking?
These questions are for all, not for you directly if you would rather not answer, and I ask because I am curious about what happens when we as a society have a problem, and the solution does not violate any rights at all, and yet people do not want that kind of solution in their lives, and I wondered why.

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dunndw

The program is problematic on several levels. First, of course, is the fact that three police officers showing up on your doorstep makes it very difficult for a parent or "other responsible adult" to say no when asked to consent to a search
Intimidation tactics to get people to submit to warrantless searches.
You want to trust them..go for it. As for me...no warrant..no searches. Not of my home, person or car. I don't really go about giving anyone probable cause to suspect me of anything.
It's called personal responsibility. If you can't take care of your children...find help. It is NOT the governments job to raise your kids.

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dcb188

Change it to to one cop and one civilian from the Mayor's commission, both in civvies. Or two civilians from the Mayor's office. They don't have any PC and are not looking for any.
I know about the kids but they are WAY too far gone for the parents to call them back. Impossible.
Government does not want to raise kids, just take illegal guns away from them. I think it is great, as long as no rights are violated. And they aren't. But we each have our own reasons for not wanting to have people in our homes. A privacy issue, friends and family etc , I understand that perfectly.

__________________
Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
__________________________________
Right is Wrong and Wrong is Right.
__________________________________
Socrates : "Knowledge is knowing that we know nothing".

dcb188

Another question I have is this: Why would Boston Police want to get illegal guns off the streets?
1. To harass property owners?
2. To try to get in your house so they can confiscate personal property that they like?
3. To case your house for future burglaries?
4. Because they do not like children?
or is it, to get an illegal gun out of circulation, WITH MOM AND DAD'S PERMISSION?
Is this harassment? Does it run afoul of the United States Constitution?
But although this is strictly voluntary and thus not against the Constitution in any way and unreasonable search and seizure provisions do not even apply, you like your privacy and you prefer not to know what your kid is into, and this is completely understandable, especially in the age in which we live.
In fact it is more than just understandable, it explains a lot.

__________________
Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
__________________________________
Right is Wrong and Wrong is Right.
__________________________________
Socrates : "Knowledge is knowing that we know nothing".

SIXTO

Legal issues set aside, (this has nothing to do with PC, warrants, reasonable suspicion and any other catch phrases we want to toss in for effect.)
I feel this program is a waste of time and money. Police should not be doing the job of parents. if the parents are bad parents, let them lay in the fiflth they created.
If caught doing illegal things the police should schwack the criminals. Leave playing daddy to daddy.

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dcb188

Well, I still feel the same way I did, but I do respect Sixto's opinion as being in the top two or three on the entire forums as far as reasonableness is concerned. But a program like this has to have the support of the people, and if most folks in Boston don't like the program, then......it dies a slow death or never gets off the ground.
So I am in a distinct minority on this one, not the first time nor the last :)

__________________
Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
__________________________________
Right is Wrong and Wrong is Right.
__________________________________
Socrates : "Knowledge is knowing that we know nothing".

SIXTO

I can see the good intent of the program, but I just think there are better ways to skin the cat, and avoid potential legal troubles down the road.

How does the saying go; Good intentions, poor execution?... or something like that.

It always amazes me how many parents call the PD to request officers to search their home for their kids drugs etc. In our little city, we get a couple a week.

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dcb188

Yeah, I was just thinking along those lines, Sixto, if parents wanted this, they would just search the bedroom themselves and bring the guns to police stations etc so why should BPD go out looking around?
If the parents and kids don't care, who should? So the fact that they are not doing it means they don't care, so why should BPD?
Another potentially good idea bites the dust.

__________________
Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
__________________________________
Right is Wrong and Wrong is Right.
__________________________________
Socrates : "Knowledge is knowing that we know nothing".

Hopyard

Done the right way, this program could have merit. Done wrong, it could lead to legal disaster and great personal danger to the officers.

I'd like to believe it can be done the right way, with a reasonable respect for the parent's, without coercion, and for the good of the "child." (I know, these really are monsters not children.) But somehow, I doubt it will be.