TommyGlock

A liberal is someone who starts his/her sentences with "Yeah, but what about...?"

rodc13

Thanks very much for posting this article. My views fall in line with the classical liberal viewpoint in many regards. I'm still dumbfounded, however, why the ACLU, with whom I agree on many points, views the 2nd Amendment as a collective right.

I'm also dumbfounded why those who style themselves as "conservatives" or "libertarians" tend to espouse viewpoints that are antithetical to the "less government" concept, particularly when it comes to establishment and privacy issues.

It's all a matter of who's ox is being gored -- "Orthodoxy is my doxy. Heterodoxy is someone else's doxy."

Thanks again for the article. I've already passed it on to a number of folks.

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Rod
"We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

Bob The Great

That is just as baffling to me as lack of 2A support among modern liberals is to the author of that article. It just does not make sense.

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Is this hard to understand? Then why does it get unintelligible to some people when 5 little words are changed?

rodc13

Absolutely! It's why the labels just don't match up with the viewpoints. I mentioned the ACLU. I intended to include modern liberals in that characterization. Thanks for emphasizing it. It DOESN'T make sense!

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Rod
"We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

agentmel

Awesome article.

In practice, it seems like a lot of people only really care about a few issues. Those who identify as "conservative" hold views of these issues that are similar to the views of "conservatives." A "liberal" is someone who holds views of the issues important to them that is similar to other "liberals." Very few people are probably actually "totally conservative" (whatever that means) or "totally liberal" (whatever that means). We just care a lot about certain issues and have strong opinions.

Or, in a more naive sense, a conservative is someone who believes the Republican politicians' lies and likes what they hear, while a liberal is someone who believes the Democrat politicians' lies and likes what they hear.

Mel

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CR2008

That's a good one
Probably they could be "pro 2nd Amendment" when they pass a law banning anything but rubber bullets... Brandy Bunch claims that they "support " the 2nd Amendment, I saw their spokes mouth say this on CSPAN while having a debate with a conceal carry advocate for campus concealed carry... it was sickening because you could tell he was being completely fraudulent.

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CR2008

Why is it baffling?

Do you really believe many who call themselves "liberal" and "progressives," who have an interest in a great big Nanny state, really want 'progress?' Something like ending segregation is "progressive" but in no way can disarming, censoring etc because these things go against freedom... IMHO you may as well call most of those "liberal" politicians and media types "Digressives" because their degeneracy is weakening freedom on many levels.

Looks like they hijacked the word 'progressive.' (It sounds soooo nice and none threatening, like they mean good.)

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rodc13

Again, it's the problems with the labels. An awful lot of those who claim the sobriquet "conservative" are happy to espouse the "big nanny state" when it comes to privacy, religion, expression, jurisprudence, and a host of other issues. Yet will trumpet their 2A support as indicative of how much they're for individual liberty.

Sadly, the liberal/progressive side tends to take the opposite tack. They're all for freedom, except when it comes to speech which might (gasp!) offend someone, and the one right which can guarantee all the others, the right to keep and bear arms.

The labels are thrown around so much as perjoratives that it makes civil discourse problematic. As see (even here on this forum) all too often, it's easier to hurl an epithet than to craft a well-considered statement of one's position.

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Rod
"We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

randytulsa2

"Progressive" is a term coined by liberals in order to avoid being called liberals. Nothing more, nothing less. It has what those who use it to identify themselves prefer to regard as a positive, non-pejorative meaning.

Liberal though I am I do not use the term to describe myself: I am not going to use euphemisms to describe myself. I am what I am and who I am, and anyone who doesn't like it may politely go pound sand.

That meaning of "progressive", of course, differs from what I think its dictionary meaning is (I haven't looked it up)- - but no more so than the term "conservative" differs from (at least one) of its liguistic definitions.

A "conservative" is attempting to "conserve" what? It implies some sort of limitation, but I've never figured out just exactly what it is to which such (a) limitation(s) apply.

In my (admittedly muddled) mind, the term conservative generally refers to someone who seeks preservation of what we all might refer to as traditional values.

A "traditionalist" might be more liguistically accurate? A "preservationist", perhaps? Heck, I don't know- or particularly care. I'm not lexiconographer, sociologist, historiographer or demographer.

A related point here is that to the extent a "liberal" seeks to enlarge the orbit of individual freedom and a "conservative" seeks to preserve traditional values, they are not always (and needn't very often be) in opposition to each other.

That is especially true when it comes to guns and self-defense....

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pgrass101

Well said Randy

By your above definition I am a Conservative Libearl

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