Petition Started to Make Texas an Open Carry State: MERGED - Page 4

McPatrickClan · June 25th, 2008, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluelineman

Frequently Asked Questions about Texas Concealed Handguns
Q: What does concealed mean? Can't I carry my handgun in plain view?
A: No. The weapon can't be visible, and its presence can't be discernible through ordinary observation.

I think this ambiguity is reason enough to support open carry in Texas. Who's to say that one LEOs view of what this means is different than yours and your whole week is spoiled.

However, I still think we make the case not on pragmatics but rather on the basis that the 2nd Amendment is a civil right, given by the powers of the federal government. Thus, Texas is moderating a civic right.

McPatrickClan · June 25th, 2008, 12:57 AM

Over 8,500 signatures from Texas citizens thus far- I wonder how many it will take for the reps in Austin to notice?

Rock and Glock · June 25th, 2008, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluelineman

Here's the official scoop...

PC §46.035.

UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.

(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

As indicated, it is very ambiguous, open to misinterpretation (and abuse), and subject to judgments I care not be made.

Frequently Asked Questions about Texas Concealed Handguns
Q: What does concealed mean? Can't I carry my handgun in plain view?
A: No. The weapon can't be visible, and its presence can't be discernible through ordinary observation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by McPatrickClan

I think this ambiguity is reason enough to support open carry in Texas. Who's to say that one LEOs view of what this means is different than yours and your whole week is spoiled.

However, I still think we make the case not on pragmatics but rather on the basis that the 2nd Amendment is a civil right, given by the powers of the federal government. Thus, Texas is moderating a civic right.

Totally agreed, although I personally never see myself in open carry mode.

Hopyard · June 25th, 2008, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McPatrickClan

I think this ambiguity is reason enough to support open carry in Texas. Who's to say that one LEOs view of what this means is different than yours and your whole week is spoiled.

However, I still think we make the case not on pragmatics but rather on the basis that the 2nd Amendment is a civil right, given by the powers of the federal government. Thus, Texas is moderating a civic right.

In another thread I mentioned the crime statistics Texas must keep on license holders and compare with the general public.

In 2006 there were, if memory serves correctly, 11 convictions for unlawful carry by a license holder. There were about 250,000 license holders.

Either we are a very very careful bunch, or the LEOs are using good judgment on minor stuff.

Also, the comment qualifying that an intentional display means being visible by ordinary observation, may not be "the law."

If there are any Texas attorneys who know how to research this, it would be interesting to see what case law actually says about what
"intentional display" really means.

To me as a layperson, if I have a gun in my front pocket and as I bend over the handle becomes momentarily visible, that is not an intentional display, even though the gun was identifiable by ordinary observation.

Or, if I wrap a towel around the gun as I put it in a car safe and someone from some angle happens to momentarily notice as I remove the towel and close the safe, that is not intentional display.

Intentional display is something more-- it is making sure that others know.

But, words don't mean what they mean when the law is involved; so if someone knows the actual case law, please post it.

To my mind, the interpretation posted by DPS seems to go beyond what the legislature intended, and if there is no case law, there should at least be an existing AG's opinion.

Double Naught Spy · June 25th, 2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McPatrickClan

Over 8,500 signatures from Texas citizens thus far- I wonder how many it will take for the reps in Austin to notice?

Let's see, there are only about 23,508,000 people in Texas, so they have a long way to go before even reaching a single percent...which is about the amount of CHL holders there are in the state. Heck, they don't even have a but a fraction of the Texas hunting population.

I would hope more people get on board with this and do so sooner rather than later.

bluelineman · June 25th, 2008, 10:33 PM

I would also like to have open carry available mainly so none of us would have to worry about printing or your shirt blowing open.

Anubis · June 26th, 2008, 04:14 PM

The Heller majority opinion found (on page 22) that the second amendment guarantees "the individual the right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation".

I see that piece of the Heller decision as a basis for future challenges to any and all OC prohibitions. If someone does not have a CCW permit, he should still be able to bear arms for self defense and the only legal way would then be OC.

airbornerangerboogie · June 27th, 2008, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluelineman

I would also like to have open carry available mainly so none of us would have to worry about printing or your shirt blowing open.

+1 on OC, if for nothing more than not having to worry about printing. I believe that just like anything else though, there is a time and place to CC and to OC. OC'ing all the time would make the sheep and LEO's very nervous.

just my .02 worth

Texian · June 28th, 2008, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P7fanatic

I believe those guys [gang bangers] you're talking about are carrying concealed right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by airbornerangerboogie

+1 on OC, if for nothing more than not having to worry about printing. I believe that just like anything else though, there is a time and place to CC and to OC. OC'ing all the time would make the sheep and LEO's very nervous.

just my .02 worth

While reading the above comments I was remembering certain people that I know who think nothing about using an elevator in an office building unless it is one of the glass ones where you can see the cables and guides and then they become terrified.

If the one you can't see is safe than so is the other.

Picketeer · June 30th, 2008, 02:47 PM

I am one of the happy Texas Petition signers and am hoping something good comes of it. I believe if you are a licensed gun owner, you should have the option to open carry!

June 25th, 2008, 10:33 PM	#36
bluelineman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 836	I would also like to have open carry available mainly so none of us would have to worry about printing or your shirt blowing open. __________________ Support the Wounded Troops Medal of Honor Recipients, Iraq

June 26th, 2008, 04:14 PM	#37
Anubis Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arapahoe County CO Posts: 940	lawsuit better than petition The Heller majority opinion found (on page 22) that the second amendment guarantees "the individual the right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation". I see that piece of the Heller decision as a basis for future challenges to any and all OC prohibitions. If someone does not have a CCW permit, he should still be able to bear arms for self defense and the only legal way would then be OC. __________________ Send lawyers, Glocks, and money!

June 30th, 2008, 02:47 PM	#40
Picketeer Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 48	I am one of the happy Texas Petition signers and am hoping something good comes of it. I believe if you are a licensed gun owner, you should have the option to open carry! __________________ Texas CHL Holder, Member NRA & TxCDL GLOCK 19 9mm & GLOCK 26 9mm - 3rd Gen Both RUGER LCP .380 Taurus SS Judge .45/.410 & Taurus PT22 .22LR Last edited by JD; June 30th, 2008 at 02:53 PM. Reason: Removed bold font.

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June 25th, 2008, 12:57 AM	#32
McPatrickClan Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: East of Ft. Worth, Texas Posts: 283	Over 8,500 signatures from Texas citizens thus far- I wonder how many it will take for the reps in Austin to notice?