NO Guns stores in DC but LOOK WHO HAS A LICENSE!!!! - Page 3

mrreynolds · July 1st, 2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIXTO

I'm getting giddy with excitement, I cant wait to follow the outcome. Brilliant work Jang, MrReynolds and GoAwayFarm.

Happy to be a part of the team.

Janq · July 1st, 2008, 02:50 PM

Honestly I do not expect to ever hear back from Mr. Sugarmann.

Clearly he is not a practicing FFL dealer.
As such his only play is to not return my call to which he can then later if called on it claim ignorance. And not be on record that he is in fact and truth not a practicing FFL.
These people aren't dumb, on the whole. My statement inquiring about his FFL calling out of the blue, right around the time of DCvHeller, is not going to be taken by him to be happenstance. Further my stated inquiry about transfer of a revolver in specific should also be a clue.

Again I do not expect a return call from him.

- Janq

BigEFan · July 1st, 2008, 02:56 PM

I am chuckling so much that I wonder if this thread belongs in the humor section. KEEP IT UP GUYS!

edr9x23super · July 1st, 2008, 03:04 PM

I have just used the information in this post to formally inquire about transferring a firearm as a gift for my brother-in-law who works and lives in old town.

we will see what he responds with.

Rob99VMI04 · July 1st, 2008, 03:10 PM

Guys no offense to harp on the parade that needs to be going to Pennsylvania avenue. But since your not a resident all he has to ask you is for a copy of your DC drivers license. You have to be in DC to but a gun from him. I'm sure he doesn't have a stock of guns. Because before the Heller decision there where absolutly NO Handguns in the District!!! Get it right! :)

kazzaerexys · July 1st, 2008, 03:13 PM

Ah, but Rob, I want to transfer a gun to my girlfriend who does live in D.C. That's a pretty straight forward test case. And if he is not in the business of selling guns, then BATFE should yank his license.

mrreynolds · July 1st, 2008, 03:46 PM

Did you realize that you have certified to the government that your FFL is a "principal source of livelihood and profit?" No? Try reading:

18 USC Sec. 921 01/02/2006

-EXPCITE-
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS

-HEAD-
Sec. 921. Definitions

-STATUTE-

(11) The term "dealer" means

(A) any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail,

(B)any person engaged in the business of repairing firearms or of making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms, or

(C) any person who is a pawnbroker. The term "licensed dealer" means any dealer who is licensed under the provisions of this chapter.

(21) The term "engaged in the business" means -

(A) as applied to a manufacturer of firearms, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms manufactured;

(B) as applied to a manufacturer of ammunition, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the ammunition manufactured;

(C) as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section 921(a)(11)(A), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms;

(D) as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section 921(a)(11)(B), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to engaging in such activity as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional repairs of firearms, or who occasionally fits special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms;

(E) as applied to an importer of firearms, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to importing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms imported; and

(F) as applied to an importer of ammunition, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to importing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the ammunition imported.

(22) The term "with the principal objective of livelihood and profit" means that the intent underlying the sale or disposition of firearms is predominantly one of obtaining livelihood and pecuniary gain, as opposed to other intents, such as improving or liquidating a personal firearms collection: Provided, That proof of profit shall not be required as to a person who engages in the regular and repetitive purchase and disposition of firearms for criminal purposes or terrorism. For purposes of this paragraph, the term "terrorism" means activity, directed against United States persons, which -

(A) is committed by an individual who is not a national or permanent resident alien of the United States;

(B) involves violent acts or acts dangerous to human life which would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States; and

(C) is intended -
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by assassination or kidnapping.

US CODE 99-308 Chapter 44, Section 921.11, 21 and 22

§ 478.58 State or other law.

A license issued under this part confers no right or privilege to conduct business or activity contrary to State or other law. The holder of such a license is not by reason of the rights and privileges granted by that license immune from punishment for operating a firearm or ammunition business or activity in violation of the provisions of any State or other law. Similarly, compliance with the provisions of any State or other law affords no immunity under Federal law or regulations.

§ 478.58 State or other law

ARTICLE

Janq · July 1st, 2008, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazzaerexys

Ah, but Rob, I want to transfer a gun to my girlfriend who does live in D.C. That's a pretty straight forward test case. And if he is not in the business of selling guns, then BATFE should yank his license.

Yep...! ^^

That is _exactly_ the scenario I had in mind if he had answered and/or by chance does return my call.
I do not have to be a DC resident and I am not inquiring to make any purchase. He's an FFL which is a licensed transfer point, not just a dealer/seller. Half my family lives in DC never mind many of my friends.
I am willing to prove a point and setup transfer of one of my own personal firearms to that of a family member or friend, who is a DC resident, via Mr. Schumann if he does return my call and make like he'd want to take steps forward for real. Hell I'd shoulder the cost too, shipping and FFL fees 100%.

- Janq

deadeye72 · July 1st, 2008, 04:17 PM

My question is, if they do not have any FFL dealers in DC, how did the people purchase the long guns they were allowed to own?

Janq · July 1st, 2008, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadeye72

My question is, if they do not have any FFL dealers in DC, how did the people purchase the long guns they were allowed to own?

Either move there with as much or inherit them from a relative who was a resident back when there were gun shops in DC before the first ban in '72 or as many have done they purchased them illegally in MD or VA and have been sitting on them for years in their home as an 'Open Only In Case of Emergency' type escape tool.
The DC po-po have a 30 minute to 3 day response time which leaves one more than enough time to 'dispose' of said longgun (or handgun) upon use prior to Johnny Law showing up to ask questions and take names. In D.C. due to law and circumstance firearms are largely disposable and commodity items to which most all possessors are and have long been criminalized regardless of intent.

- Janq

July 1st, 2008, 02:50 PM	#22
Janq VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,882	Honestly I do not expect to ever hear back from Mr. Sugarmann. Clearly he is not a practicing FFL dealer. As such his only play is to not return my call to which he can then later if called on it claim ignorance. And not be on record that he is in fact and truth not a practicing FFL. These people aren't dumb, on the whole. My statement inquiring about his FFL calling out of the blue, right around the time of DCvHeller, is not going to be taken by him to be happenstance. Further my stated inquiry about transfer of a revolver in specific should also be a clue. Again I do not expect a return call from him. - Janq __________________ "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy Monday, March 12, 2007 -- Op Ed -- The Washington Post

July 1st, 2008, 02:56 PM	#23
BigEFan VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Central California Posts: 2,034	I am chuckling so much that I wonder if this thread belongs in the humor section. KEEP IT UP GUYS! __________________ *Lex et Libertas — Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus, et Fidelis!* "Not only do the people who put their lives on the line to protect the rest of us deserve better, we all deserve better than to have our own security undermined by those who undermine law enforcement." -Thomas Sowell

July 1st, 2008, 03:04 PM	#24
edr9x23super Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 961	I have just used the information in this post to formally inquire about transferring a firearm as a gift for my brother-in-law who works and lives in old town. we will see what he responds with. __________________ "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

July 1st, 2008, 03:10 PM	#25
Rob99VMI04 Distinguished Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: ABOVE is the FOOTPRINT of a common american CHICKEN Posts: 1,656	Guys no offense to harp on the parade that needs to be going to Pennsylvania avenue. But since your not a resident all he has to ask you is for a copy of your DC drivers license. You have to be in DC to but a gun from him. I'm sure he doesn't have a stock of guns. Because before the Heller decision there where absolutly NO Handguns in the District!!! Get it right! :) __________________ "You may find me one day dead in a ditch somewhere. But by God, you'll find me in a pile of brass." - Trooper M. Padgett "When seconds count.....Cops Respond in Minutes"

July 1st, 2008, 03:13 PM	#26
kazzaerexys Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 919	Ah, but Rob, I want to transfer a gun to my girlfriend who does live in D.C. That's a pretty straight forward test case. And if he is not in the business of selling guns, then BATFE should yank his license. __________________ “What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia

July 1st, 2008, 03:46 PM	#27
mrreynolds Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Harlem, NY Posts: 348	Did you realize that you have certified to the government that your FFL is a "principal source of livelihood and profit?" No? Try reading: 18 USC Sec. 921 01/02/2006 -EXPCITE- TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE PART I - CRIMES CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS -HEAD- Sec. 921. Definitions -STATUTE- (11) The term "dealer" means (A) any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail, (B)any person engaged in the business of repairing firearms or of making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms, or (C) any person who is a pawnbroker. The term "licensed dealer" means any dealer who is licensed under the provisions of this chapter. (21) The term "engaged in the business" means - (A) as applied to a manufacturer of firearms, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms manufactured; (B) as applied to a manufacturer of ammunition, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the ammunition manufactured; (C) as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section 921(a)(11)(A), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms; (D) as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section 921(a)(11)(B), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to engaging in such activity as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional repairs of firearms, or who occasionally fits special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms; (E) as applied to an importer of firearms, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to importing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms imported; and (F) as applied to an importer of ammunition, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to importing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the ammunition imported. (22) The term "with the principal objective of livelihood and profit" means that the intent underlying the sale or disposition of firearms is predominantly one of obtaining livelihood and pecuniary gain, as opposed to other intents, such as improving or liquidating a personal firearms collection: Provided, That proof of profit shall not be required as to a person who engages in the regular and repetitive purchase and disposition of firearms for criminal purposes or terrorism. For purposes of this paragraph, the term "terrorism" means activity, directed against United States persons, which - (A) is committed by an individual who is not a national or permanent resident alien of the United States; (B) involves violent acts or acts dangerous to human life which would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States; and (C) is intended - (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by assassination or kidnapping. US CODE 99-308 Chapter 44, Section 921.11, 21 and 22 § 478.58 State or other law. A license issued under this part confers no right or privilege to conduct business or activity contrary to State or other law. The holder of such a license is not by reason of the rights and privileges granted by that license immune from punishment for operating a firearm or ammunition business or activity in violation of the provisions of any State or other law. Similarly, compliance with the provisions of any State or other law affords no immunity under Federal law or regulations. § 478.58 State or other law ARTICLE __________________ www.SmallArmz.info - Harlem, NYC I Can't Carry Here But I'm A Member Of The NRA. Are You? Impact Guns / U.S. Concealed Carry SAF,GOA,NYSPRA,NRA Life,Pro-Gun NH

July 1st, 2008, 04:17 PM	#29
deadeye72 VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Central Mississippi Posts: 2,411	My question is, if they do not have any FFL dealers in DC, how did the people purchase the long guns they were allowed to own? __________________ HK P2000 .40 BENELLI NOVA

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode