With guns, no second chances (Idiot Editor)

paramedic70002 · July 12th, 2008, 10:17 AM

With guns, no second chances | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

The Virginian-Pilot
© July 12, 2008

Did he really just take a swing at me?

It was 30 years ago, spring 1978, and I was leaving the indoor basketball courts at the University of Maryland in suburban D.C. A guy from the other team - which had lost when I'd sunk the winning hoop - approached me as I was leaving the gym.

"You undercut me!" he shouted. "Let's go!" he added, challenging me to a fight.

Good thing it was 1978, and not 2008. Otherwise, my opponent might have had a gun.

That's one of the overwhelming differences between an earlier generation and today's. Before, taunts, threats and fistfights were the worst thing young men faced when they had beefs on the court, on the street, in a club. Nowadays, though, you never know who's packing a gun - or if they're looking to use it.

Confrontations three decades ago never seemed to amount to much. Sore jaws, puffy eyes or wounded feelings were the limit. Not death.

Back then, you could cool off. You still can today, too, but you might be in a holding cell, facing a murder charge and the grieving, revenge-seeking relatives of your victim.

It was the reality of gun violence - and its results - that drew hundreds of people to South Norfolk on Thursday night. Called by top Chesapeake city officials, the meeting at Bethany Baptist Church sought solutions to the current problems of guns, drugs and gangs.

The meeting occurred after two shooting deaths on the same day last week in Chesapeake, within a few miles of each other. At 2:30 a.m. July 1, Lonnie Andrews Jr., 18, was killed near the home where he grew up. Around 1 p.m., Dontrell Whitehurst, 26, was killed.

The killing of Andrews has received more attention because of his age and promising future. Popular with classmates, the recent Oscar Smith High School graduate was headed to Virginia State University on a football scholarship. A 17-year-old male, an Oscar Smith student, has been charged in Andrews' slaying.

Here's where I make all the gun rights people crazy: Despite the few details that have emerged about the case, there's every reason to think that - minus the gun - Lonnie Andrews would be alive today.

("But guns don't kill people; people kill people!" Yeah, but in most cases, the people have guns.)

Chesapeake police have said little so far about the case. They acknowledge that some type of altercation preceded Andrews' death, but it's unclear who it was between, what it was about, and whether that was the motive for the shooting. Andrews had been at a dance at Janelle's Center for the Youth about a half hour before he was shot. Police declined to comment on the gun used in the killing, or whether it had been recovered.

("Criminals won't obey the law, and everybody else will be sitting ducks without their own guns!" activists say. But was the 17-year-old suspect a "criminal" before this incident? Did easy access to a gun lead to a series of events that had only one outcome?)

I don't blame it all on the guns. If we valued life, if we loved each other, if we had proper guidance in the home, we wouldn't so easily end the lives of others. So many social ills are catalysts for violence. But the presence of guns, especially easy-to-tote handguns, makes the situation infinitely worse.

Thirty years ago, walking off a basketball court, I got punched in the face. Thankfully, he didn't have a gun. Thankfully, I didn't have one, either.

Roger Chesley is associate editor of The Virginian-Pilot's editorial page. Reach him at (757) 446-2329 or at roger. chesley@pilotonline.com.

Only four replies, but he's batting zero so far. Wanna beat up on him too? Click the link.

Anubis · July 12th, 2008, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paramedic70002

Good thing it was 1978, and not 2008. Otherwise, my opponent might have had a gun.

This guy must think that guns weren't invented until some time after 1978.

I think it likely that the collapse of a society is presaged by polite manners being replaced with rudeness and other "in your face" behavior, which does agree with one of his themes.

archer51 · July 12th, 2008, 01:27 PM

Quote:

("Criminals won't obey the law, and everybody else will be sitting ducks without their own guns!" activists say. But was the 17-year-old suspect a "criminal" before this incident? Did easy access to a gun lead to a series of events that had only one outcome?)

Well if he would have done his homework he would have known the answer. Per Virginia State Law:

§ 18.2-308.7. Possession or transportation of certain firearms by persons under the age of 18; penalty.

It shall be unlawful for any person under 18 years of age to knowingly and intentionally possess or transport a handgun or assault firearm anywhere in the Commonwealth. For the purposes of this section, "handgun" means any pistol or revolver or other firearm originally designed, made and intended to fire single or multiple projectiles by means of an explosion of a combustible material from one or more barrels when held in one hand and "assault firearm" means any (i) semi-automatic centerfire rifle or pistol which expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (ii) shotgun with a magazine which will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered.

KenInColo · July 12th, 2008, 02:16 PM

Anyone out at 2:30 AM shouldn't be surprised if they run into trouble.

mlr1m · July 12th, 2008, 08:12 PM

Back when I was a kid it seemed there was a gun leaned up in the corner of atleast one room of all my friends houses. My father took me up to the local Western Auto store so I could pick out my first revolver when I was in the 6th grade. I remember riding my bike to the stoe once a month so I could make the payments on it with my paper route money.

I do believe that back then most of us kids were better trained and much safer with firearms than most the adults i see out shooting today. We knew that they were not toys.

Back in those days it was common for all of us kids to walk through town wearing or carrying our guns on the way to the river outside of town. Maybe the problem nowdays is lack of training by indifferent parents more so than gun access?

And before you say it. Times were not different!! the people back then were different though, thats for sure.

Michael

buckeyeLCPL · July 12th, 2008, 10:18 PM

Wow, I've been involved in my fair share of fistfights and worked as a bouncer through college, never had a firearm enter into any of them (maybe I was just lucky).

I guess he missed the part of the anti-gun agenda classes in which everything must be referred to as the "Wild West", which happened in the late 1800's.

ccw9mm · July 12th, 2008, 10:20 PM

The author's correct. With attackers that have no compunction about killing, raping or maiming, often using knives or guns, there are often no second chances. That's the whole point of the exercise.

press1280 · July 13th, 2008, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckeyeLCPL

Wow, I've been involved in my fair share of fistfights and worked as a bouncer through college, never had a firearm enter into any of them (maybe I was just lucky).

I guess he missed the part of the anti-gun agenda classes in which everything must be referred to as the "Wild West", which happened in the late 1800's.

This guy thinks everyone's going to run out,get a gun and snap if someone insults them.
This "Wild West," theory is total crap, the gang bangers are the only ones involved with anything close to that. And by the way they don't just pop into a gun store and buy a gun.

KenInColo · July 13th, 2008, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlr1m

Back when I was a kid it seemed there was a gun leaned up in the corner of atleast one room of all my friends houses. My father took me up to the local Western Auto store so I could pick out my first revolver when I was in the 6th grade. I remember riding my bike to the stoe once a month so I could make the payments on it with my paper route money.

I do believe that back then most of us kids were better trained and much safer with firearms than most the adults i see out shooting today. We knew that they were not toys.

Back in those days it was common for all of us kids to walk through town wearing or carrying our guns on the way to the river outside of town. Maybe the problem nowdays is lack of training by indifferent parents more so than gun access?

And before you say it. Times were not different!! the people back then were different though, thats for sure.

Michael

+1 to everything you said.

I got my first training, the NRA Hunter's Safety course when I was 11. Our town instituted the program. Every year, the 6th grade class got to take the course and the town picked up the tab (the town also picked up the tab for Red Cross swimming lessons to).

After I demonstrated to my dad that I was safe with guns, he let me get as many guns as my paper route, & lawn mowing jobs would allow.

Wasn't it great growing up in a small town back in the '50s?

ccw9mm · July 13th, 2008, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by press1280

This guy thinks everyone's going to run out,get a gun and snap if someone insults them.
This "Wild West," theory is total crap ...

Yup. It will get wilder, here and there, if carrying is simpler or even removed from the radar altogether. It will certainly flush out a few more of the felons in the crowd, sure. However, it will NOT be the upstanding citizens doing the threatening, robbing, bludgeoning, murders. They'll simply be more empowered to say "no." As it should be.

July 12th, 2008, 10:17 AM	#1
paramedic70002 Distinguished Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Franklin, VA Posts: 1,661	With guns, no second chances (Idiot Editor) With guns, no second chances \| HamptonRoads.com \| PilotOnline.com The Virginian-Pilot © July 12, 2008 Did he really just take a swing at me? It was 30 years ago, spring 1978, and I was leaving the indoor basketball courts at the University of Maryland in suburban D.C. A guy from the other team - which had lost when I'd sunk the winning hoop - approached me as I was leaving the gym. "You undercut me!" he shouted. "Let's go!" he added, challenging me to a fight. Good thing it was 1978, and not 2008. Otherwise, my opponent might have had a gun. That's one of the overwhelming differences between an earlier generation and today's. Before, taunts, threats and fistfights were the worst thing young men faced when they had beefs on the court, on the street, in a club. Nowadays, though, you never know who's packing a gun - or if they're looking to use it. Confrontations three decades ago never seemed to amount to much. Sore jaws, puffy eyes or wounded feelings were the limit. Not death. Back then, you could cool off. You still can today, too, but you might be in a holding cell, facing a murder charge and the grieving, revenge-seeking relatives of your victim. It was the reality of gun violence - and its results - that drew hundreds of people to South Norfolk on Thursday night. Called by top Chesapeake city officials, the meeting at Bethany Baptist Church sought solutions to the current problems of guns, drugs and gangs. The meeting occurred after two shooting deaths on the same day last week in Chesapeake, within a few miles of each other. At 2:30 a.m. July 1, Lonnie Andrews Jr., 18, was killed near the home where he grew up. Around 1 p.m., Dontrell Whitehurst, 26, was killed. The killing of Andrews has received more attention because of his age and promising future. Popular with classmates, the recent Oscar Smith High School graduate was headed to Virginia State University on a football scholarship. A 17-year-old male, an Oscar Smith student, has been charged in Andrews' slaying. Here's where I make all the gun rights people crazy: Despite the few details that have emerged about the case, there's every reason to think that - minus the gun - Lonnie Andrews would be alive today. ("But guns don't kill people; people kill people!" Yeah, but in most cases, the people have guns.) Chesapeake police have said little so far about the case. They acknowledge that some type of altercation preceded Andrews' death, but it's unclear who it was between, what it was about, and whether that was the motive for the shooting. Andrews had been at a dance at Janelle's Center for the Youth about a half hour before he was shot. Police declined to comment on the gun used in the killing, or whether it had been recovered. ("Criminals won't obey the law, and everybody else will be sitting ducks without their own guns!" activists say. But was the 17-year-old suspect a "criminal" before this incident? Did easy access to a gun lead to a series of events that had only one outcome?) I don't blame it all on the guns. If we valued life, if we loved each other, if we had proper guidance in the home, we wouldn't so easily end the lives of others. So many social ills are catalysts for violence. But the presence of guns, especially easy-to-tote handguns, makes the situation infinitely worse. Thirty years ago, walking off a basketball court, I got punched in the face. Thankfully, he didn't have a gun. Thankfully, I didn't have one, either. Roger Chesley is associate editor of The Virginian-Pilot's editorial page. Reach him at (757) 446-2329 or at roger. chesley@pilotonline.com. Only four replies, but he's batting zero so far. Wanna beat up on him too? Click the link. __________________ Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But... Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

July 12th, 2008, 02:16 PM	#4
KenInColo Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: western Colorado Posts: 363	Anyone out at 2:30 AM shouldn't be surprised if they run into trouble. __________________ An armed populace are called citizens. An unarmed populace are called subjects.

July 12th, 2008, 10:18 PM	#6
buckeyeLCPL VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: displaced from Ohio Posts: 2,225	Wow, I've been involved in my fair share of fistfights and worked as a bouncer through college, never had a firearm enter into any of them (maybe I was just lucky). I guess he missed the part of the anti-gun agenda classes in which everything must be referred to as the "Wild West", which happened in the late 1800's. __________________ Fortes Fortuna Juvat We're mules lad. Mules that kill.

July 12th, 2008, 10:20 PM	#7
ccw9mm VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Oregon USA Posts: 5,396	The author's correct. With attackers that have no compunction about killing, raping or maiming, often using knives or guns, there are often no second chances. That's the whole point of the exercise. __________________ Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it. Reports: CZ P01 pt1, pt2. Thoughts: Justifiable self defense. US v Emerson, 2001: The 2A protects the individual RTKBA, regardless if serving in a militia or military.

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July 12th, 2008, 08:12 PM	#5
mlr1m Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: okla Posts: 82	Back when I was a kid it seemed there was a gun leaned up in the corner of atleast one room of all my friends houses. My father took me up to the local Western Auto store so I could pick out my first revolver when I was in the 6th grade. I remember riding my bike to the stoe once a month so I could make the payments on it with my paper route money. I do believe that back then most of us kids were better trained and much safer with firearms than most the adults i see out shooting today. We knew that they were not toys. Back in those days it was common for all of us kids to walk through town wearing or carrying our guns on the way to the river outside of town. Maybe the problem nowdays is lack of training by indifferent parents more so than gun access? And before you say it. Times were not different!! the people back then were different though, thats for sure. Michael