Shifting Positions Leave Questions Unanswered On Guns...

tinkerinWstuff · July 26th, 2008, 12:48 AM

As the majority of this article directly relates to Obama's positions on guns....

Today in Investor's Business Daily stock analysis and business news

I really just wanted to post this as a point of information and not looking to get into a huge bash fest one way or the other. No doubt too much

will just get this thread

tinkerinWstuff · July 26th, 2008, 12:52 AM

Sorry, I haven't got the hang of how to quote an article in the thread. Starts like:

Obama's Shifting Positions Leave Questions Unanswered On Guns...
BY JOHN R. LOTT JR.

Posted 7/24/2008

Sen. Barack Obama claims there has been only a "shift in emphasis," not "wild shifts," in his political positions. Many already know the list: Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, NAFTA, public financing of campaigns, abortion, gay marriage, Social Security taxes, the death penalty and negotiating with rogue nations.

Possibly one of the more remarkable changes has been his position on guns.

......article goes on from there.

Kerbouchard · July 26th, 2008, 01:06 AM

Here is the rest of the article. Nothing really new, but its written fairly well.

Quote:

BY JOHN R. LOTT JR.

Posted 7/24/2008

Sen. Barack Obama claims there has been only a "shift in emphasis," not "wild shifts," in his political positions. Many already know the list: Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, NAFTA, public financing of campaigns, abortion, gay marriage, Social Security taxes, the death penalty and negotiating with rogue nations.

Possibly one of the more remarkable changes has been his position on guns.

But despite Obama's recent concession on "The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer" that there has been a "shift in emphasis" on various issues, on guns he held firm: "You mentioned the gun position. I've been talking about the Second Amendment being an individual right for the last year and a half. So there wasn't a shift there."

Unfortunately, the interviewer, Gwen Ifill, didn't challenge his claim.

The day the Supreme Court struck Washington, D.C.'s gun ban, Obama claimed the court's decision merely confirmed his own view. He told Fox News he had "said consistently that I believe that the Second Amendment is an individual right, and that was the essential decision that the Supreme Court came down on."

So has Obama consistently supported individuals' rights to own guns and opposed the D.C. handgun ban?

Last November, Obama's campaign told the Chicago Tribune that "Obama believes the D.C. handgun law is constitutional." After Obama's statement supporting the Supreme Court striking down the ban, the campaign quickly disowned the Chicago Tribune quote as a staffer's "inartful attempt" to characterize his position.

Unfortunately, however, Obama personally voiced support for the D.C. ban at other times. In February, he did this himself, not something that he could blame on a staffer.

ABC's local Washington, D.C., anchor Leon Harris asked Obama: "One other issue that's of great importance here in the district as well is gun control. You said in Idaho recently . . . 'I have no intention of taking away folks' guns,' but you support the D.C. handgun ban." Obama's simple response: "Right." When Harris said "And you've said that it's constitutional," Obama is clearly seen on tape nodding his head yes.

But this is not new. Obama has a long history of supporting city gun bans. As the Associated Press described his 2004 vote on a gun control bill:

"He also opposed letting people use a self-defense argument if charged with violating local handgun bans by using weapons in their homes. The bill was a reaction to a Chicago-area man who, after shooting an intruder, was charged with a handgun violation."

Obama's statement on "NewsHour" added a new qualifier that he has been making the individual right position "for the last year and a half." Previous statements have simply said that he has had "consistently" held that position on guns. But all the changes are causing confusion among Obama's own advisers.

One adviser, Stanford Law Professor Larry Lessig, said last week on Hugh Hewitt's national radio show that "Barack Obama is not a lefty. . . . I think that he has always been an individual rights person on the Second Amendment."

No matter Obama's current position, no major party presidential nominee has probably ever had as strong and consistent an anti-gun record. Here is a politician who supported a ban on handguns in 1996, backed a ban on the sale of all semiautomatic guns in 1998 (a ban that would encompass the vast majority of guns sold in the U.S.), advocated in 2004 banning gun sales within five miles of a school or park (essentially a ban on virtually all gun stores), as well as served on the board of the Joyce Foundation, probably the largest private funder of anti-gun and pro-ban research in the country.

Difficult questions still remain. With new legal cases being filed against Chicago's gun ban over the last couple of weeks, somebody in the media is going to eventually have to ask Obama why he has not only never spoken out against Chicago's ban, he actively supported it.

Or, what do his positions mean for Supreme Court nominees? How will Obama reconcile his new position with the fact that all the members of the Supreme Court whom he reveres and whom his appointees would be like voted that the Second Amendment is not an individual right? These justices went even further and argued that even if the Amendment guaranteed such a right, D.C.'s ban does not infringe people's rights to own guns.

Obama obviously thinks the gun issue is important. Why else is it one issue on which he won't admit shifting emphasis? But would anyone believe a promise by him that his judicial nominees wouldn't vote to reverse the court's close 5-to-4 decision on the Second Amendment?

msgt/ret · July 26th, 2008, 01:16 AM

Quote:

But despite Obama's recent concession on "The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer" that there has been a "shift in emphasis" on various issues, on guns he held firm: "You mentioned the gun position. I've been talking about the Second Amendment being an individual right for the last year and a half. So there wasn't a shift there."

Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t he vote FOR every anti-self defensive proposal before the state legislature, as the old saying goes “A tiger cannot change it’s stripes”.

semperfi.45 · July 26th, 2008, 08:25 AM

This is from the Grand Lodge FOP site. They asked both candidates this question;

Because of the increased politicization of firearms issues and the lack of any meaningful public
safety component in many legislative proposals, the membership of the FOP adopted a resolution
stating that it would not support additional “gun control” legislation beyond our support for the
measures signed into law in 1994. Will your Administration seek to push any additional “gun
control” measures? If so, what public safety benefit do you expect to achieve and why should the
FOP overturn its resolution on this issue?

This is Sen. Obama's response;

I greatly respect the constitutional rights of Americans to bear arms. But I also believe that we can
respect the Second Amendment and stem gun violence in our communities. It is especially
important to stop the trafficking of illegal guns, and my legislative priorities will focus on the
common‐sense steps we can take to do just that.
First, we know that when law enforcement agencies operate in concert at the federal, state, and
local levels, the chances of solving a crime increases. But since 2003, the Tiahrt Amendment has
restricted the ability of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) to share gun
trace information with members of state and local law enforcement. The ATF has a wide‐ranging
database of gun information, yet Washington has threatened police officers with time in prison for
attempting to access it. If we repeal this Amendment, it will give police officers the tools they need
to fight the illegal gun trade and reduce crime.
Second, I support requiring background checks and closing the gun‐show loophole that has been
exploited by everyone from foreign terrorists to the Columbine High School shooters. Closing it
would not impair the rights of lawful gun owners.

Finally, I believe we should reinstate and make permanent the expired federal assault weapons ban.
We’ve witnessed the need for the ban in my hometown of Chicago, where Mayor Daley and the
Chicago Police Department are backing a plan to equip officers with semi‐automatic assault rifles in
part because our officers have been outgunned by criminals equipped with AK‐47s and similar
weapons.

goldshellback · July 26th, 2008, 09:15 AM

If we get past all the political 'spinning' of this issue, Obama WILL do EVERYTHING to restrict ALL gun rights. It's just who he is.....It helped his advancement in Il. state and Senate politics. Simply not enough people who care about thier 2nd Ammendment rights voted..........that or there there was too many of "them" (like-minded Brady Bunch larvie) to oppose his position locally. On the National stage, however, that COULD change. There are enough of us "bitter Americans clinging to our guns and Bibles" to prevent his winning the POTUS.

sgtD · July 26th, 2008, 11:38 PM

I hope you're right goldshellback! My confidence however is low, as it seems that we are at the zenith of mass stupidity as far as the electorate is concerned.

AFA Barack Hussein O'bama, he's always been and anti and always will be. I ain't sure the other guy is much better, but he can't be any worse.

bandit383 · July 27th, 2008, 12:11 AM

You all are missing the point when it comes to the 2nd Admendment and Obama...Obama can't restrict the 2nd Admendment...but the 2-3 Supreme Court Justices' the next President will pick can.

Rick

Shizzlemah · July 27th, 2008, 12:27 AM

Quote:

If we repeal this Amendment, it will give police officers the tools they need
to fight the illegal gun trade and reduce crime.

Well that's sayin' a little bit right there, 'eh ?

rdoggsilva · July 27th, 2008, 04:54 AM

This guy can do a back flip better then any one I have seen.

July 26th, 2008, 12:48 AM	#1
tinkerinWstuff Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Colorado Front Range Posts: 271	Shifting Positions Leave Questions Unanswered On Guns... As the majority of this article directly relates to Obama's positions on guns.... Today in Investor's Business Daily stock analysis and business news I really just wanted to post this as a point of information and not looking to get into a huge bash fest one way or the other. No doubt too much will just get this thread __________________ Glock27 - daily carry Dan & Wesson .357 - open carry Berretta Bobcat - plinkin'

July 26th, 2008, 12:52 AM	#2
tinkerinWstuff Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Colorado Front Range Posts: 271	Sorry, I haven't got the hang of how to quote an article in the thread. Starts like: Obama's Shifting Positions Leave Questions Unanswered On Guns... BY JOHN R. LOTT JR. Posted 7/24/2008 Sen. Barack Obama claims there has been only a "shift in emphasis," not "wild shifts," in his political positions. Many already know the list: Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, NAFTA, public financing of campaigns, abortion, gay marriage, Social Security taxes, the death penalty and negotiating with rogue nations. Possibly one of the more remarkable changes has been his position on guns. ......article goes on from there. __________________ Glock27 - daily carry Dan & Wesson .357 - open carry Berretta Bobcat - plinkin'

July 26th, 2008, 08:25 AM	#5
semperfi.45 VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Over here now! Posts: 2,651	This is from the Grand Lodge FOP site. They asked both candidates this question; Because of the increased politicization of firearms issues and the lack of any meaningful public safety component in many legislative proposals, the membership of the FOP adopted a resolution stating that it would not support additional “gun control” legislation beyond our support for the measures signed into law in 1994. Will your Administration seek to push any additional “gun control” measures? If so, what public safety benefit do you expect to achieve and why should the FOP overturn its resolution on this issue? This is Sen. Obama's response; I greatly respect the constitutional rights of Americans to bear arms. But I also believe that we can respect the Second Amendment and stem gun violence in our communities. It is especially important to stop the trafficking of illegal guns, and my legislative priorities will focus on the common‐sense steps we can take to do just that. First, we know that when law enforcement agencies operate in concert at the federal, state, and local levels, the chances of solving a crime increases. But since 2003, the Tiahrt Amendment has restricted the ability of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) to share gun trace information with members of state and local law enforcement. The ATF has a wide‐ranging database of gun information, yet Washington has threatened police officers with time in prison for attempting to access it. If we repeal this Amendment, it will give police officers the tools they need to fight the illegal gun trade and reduce crime. Second, I support requiring background checks and closing the gun‐show loophole that has been exploited by everyone from foreign terrorists to the Columbine High School shooters. Closing it would not impair the rights of lawful gun owners. Finally, I believe we should reinstate and make permanent the expired federal assault weapons ban. We’ve witnessed the need for the ban in my hometown of Chicago, where Mayor Daley and the Chicago Police Department are backing a plan to equip officers with semi‐automatic assault rifles in part because our officers have been outgunned by criminals equipped with AK‐47s and similar weapons. __________________ My art is different from yours; it consists not in defeating others, but in not being defeated. Luck may or may not be on your side. But ability is 100% within your control. Skilled at arms...or do you suck? Last edited by semperfi.45; July 26th, 2008 at 02:36 PM.

July 26th, 2008, 09:15 AM	#6
goldshellback VIP Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: St. Mayberry, GA Posts: 2,062	If we get past all the political 'spinning' of this issue, Obama WILL do EVERYTHING to restrict ALL gun rights. It's just who he is.....It helped his advancement in Il. state and Senate politics. Simply not enough people who care about thier 2nd Ammendment rights voted..........that or there there was too many of "them" (like-minded Brady Bunch larvie) to oppose his position locally. On the National stage, however, that COULD change. There are enough of us "bitter Americans clinging to our guns and Bibles" to prevent his winning the POTUS. __________________ "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet........CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, as quoted on Fox & Friends, July 7th, 2008

July 26th, 2008, 11:38 PM	#7
sgtD Distinguished Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Kansas Posts: 1,642	I hope you're right goldshellback! My confidence however is low, as it seems that we are at the zenith of mass stupidity as far as the electorate is concerned. AFA Barack Hussein O'bama, he's always been and anti and always will be. I ain't sure the other guy is much better, but he can't be any worse. __________________ When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

July 27th, 2008, 12:11 AM	#8
bandit383 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,073	You all are missing the point when it comes to the 2nd Admendment and Obama...Obama can't restrict the 2nd Admendment...but the 2-3 Supreme Court Justices' the next President will pick can. Rick

July 27th, 2008, 04:54 AM	#10
rdoggsilva Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Utah Posts: 591	This guy can do a back flip better then any one I have seen. __________________ John Steinbeck: Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he's too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

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