Interesting: permit-holders are more law-abiding

rolyat63 · October 3rd, 2008, 09:01 PM

Quote:

• RTC permit-holders are more law-abiding than the rest of the public. For example, Florida, which has issued more carry permits than any state has issued 1.36 million permits, but revoked only 165 (0.01%) due to gun crimes by permit-holders.

Background: Before 1987, there were 10 RTC states. Indiana, Maine, New Hampshire, North Dakota, South Dakota and Washington had “shall issue” permit laws. Alabama and Connecticut had fairly-administered discretionary-issue systems. Georgia’s “shall issue” law was interpreted as discretionary in some jurisdictions. Vermont allowed carrying without a permit. Other states had restrictively-administered discretionary-issue carry permit systems or prohibited carrying.

In 1987, Florida enacted a “shall issue” law that has become the model for other states. Anti-gun groups, politicians and news media people predicted vigilante justice and “Wild West” shootouts on every corner. But through 1992, Florida’s murder rate decreased 23%, while the U.S. rate rose 9%; thereafter, murder decreased both nationally and in Florida.8 Then-Florida Licensing Division Director, John Russi, noted, “Florida’s concealed weapon law has been very successful. All major law enforcement groups supported the original legislation....[S]ome of the opponents of concealed weapon legislation in 1987 now admit the program has not created the problems many predicted.”9 In a 1995 letter to state officials, Dept. of Law Enforcement Commissioner James T. Moore wrote, “From a law enforcement perspective, the licensing process has not resulted in problems.”

Quote:

• RTC a success in every state: Former Colorado Asst. Atty. Gen. David Kopel has written, “Whenever a state legislature first considers a concealed carry bill, opponents typically warn of horrible consequences....But within a year of passage, the issue usually drops off the news media’s radar screen, while gun-control advocates in the legislature conclude that the law wasn’t so bad after all.”5 A article on Michigan’s RTC law noted, “Concerns that permit holders would lose their tempers in traffic accidents have been unfounded. Worries about risks to police officers have also proved unfounded....National surveys of police show they support concealed handgun laws by a 3-1 margin....There is also not a single academic study that claims Right to Carry laws have increased state crime rates. The debate among academics has been over how large the benefits have been.”6

Quote:

• More RTC, less crime: Violent crime rates since 2003 have been lower than anytime since the mid-1970s.1 Since 1991, 23 states have adopted RTC, the number of privately-owned guns has risen by nearly 70 million,2 and violent crime is down 38%. In 2007, the most recent year for which complete data are available, RTC states had lower violent crime rates, on average, compared to the rest of the country (total violent crime by 24%; murder, 28%; robbery, 50%; and aggravated assault, 11%).

ccw9mm · October 3rd, 2008, 10:25 PM

Of course. As a group, well-meaning folks simply seeking a method of withstanding criminal attack aren't themselves the cause of anything. Rather, they are strongly a part of the solution.

JonInNY · October 3rd, 2008, 10:41 PM

But we knew this all along!

retsupt99 · October 4th, 2008, 12:25 PM

Nothing new here except that the media (generally speaking) refuses to acknowledge any such facts.

Stay armed...stay safe!

MilitaryPower · October 4th, 2008, 11:44 PM

That is kind of misleading, unfortunately. Here are the rest of the stats.

Concealed Weapon / Firearm Summary Report
October 1, 1987 - August 31, 2008
2007-2008 10/1/87 - 8/31/08

Applications Received: 1,400,534
New 11,897
Renewal 6,345

Licenses Issued: 1,382,676
New 13,270
Renewal 6,319

Licenses Valid: 520,443

Applications Denied: 8,620
Criminal History 3,046
Incomplete Application 5,574

Licenses Revoked: 4,321
Clemency Rule Change
or Legislative Change 66
Illegible Prints With
No Response 10
Crime Prior to Licensure 517
Crime After Licensure 3,607
--Firearm Utilized-- [165]
Other 121
Reinstated* 522

ccw9mm · October 5th, 2008, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilitaryPower

That is kind of misleading, unfortunately. Here are the rest of the stats.

MP, those stats are for what/where? Alaska? Germany? The right-to-carry states mentioned in the OP? Where did those stats come from? Got a link?

FN1910 · October 5th, 2008, 08:51 AM

One thing to take into account is that anyone applying for a permit is already a person who wants to obey the law. Sort of like saying that crooks are more likely to purchase a gun illegally than law abiding citizens.

MilitaryPower · October 5th, 2008, 09:32 AM

Oops. These stats are from Florida, as those are the first stats in the OP.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/sta..._cw_annual.pdf

October 3rd, 2008, 10:25 PM	#2
ccw9mm VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Oregon USA Posts: 5,938	Of course. As a group, well-meaning folks simply seeking a method of withstanding criminal attack aren't themselves the cause of anything. Rather, they are strongly a part of the solution. __________________ Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it. Reports: CZ P01 pt1, pt2. Thoughts: Justifiable self defense. Reality: Disarming citizens only results in more victims. Tip: Use the <search> feature.

October 3rd, 2008, 10:41 PM	#3
JonInNY VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Mid-Hudson Valley New York State Posts: 2,517	But we knew this all along! __________________ "The right of voting for representatives is the primary right by which all other rights are protected." -- Thomas Paine ____________________________ Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Who will guard the guards?) -- Juvenal

October 4th, 2008, 12:25 PM	#4
retsupt99 VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Central Florida Posts: 14,606	Nothing new here except that the media (generally speaking) refuses to acknowledge any such facts. Stay armed...stay safe! __________________ "That I cannot do." "Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks." *********************************** NRA Life Member

October 4th, 2008, 11:44 PM	#5
MilitaryPower Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 764	That is kind of misleading, unfortunately. Here are the rest of the stats. Concealed Weapon / Firearm Summary Report October 1, 1987 - August 31, 2008 2007-2008 10/1/87 - 8/31/08 Applications Received: 1,400,534 New 11,897 Renewal 6,345 Licenses Issued: 1,382,676 New 13,270 Renewal 6,319 Licenses Valid: 520,443 Applications Denied: 8,620 Criminal History 3,046 Incomplete Application 5,574 Licenses Revoked: 4,321 Clemency Rule Change or Legislative Change 66 Illegible Prints With No Response 10 Crime Prior to Licensure 517 Crime After Licensure 3,607 --Firearm Utilized-- [165] Other 121 Reinstated* 522 __________________ Gun control can be blamed in part for allowing 9/11 to happen. "Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum" (Latin)- "If you want peace, prepare for war".

October 5th, 2008, 09:32 AM	#8
MilitaryPower Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 764	Oops. These stats are from Florida, as those are the first stats in the OP. http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/sta..._cw_annual.pdf __________________ Gun control can be blamed in part for allowing 9/11 to happen. "Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum" (Latin)- "If you want peace, prepare for war".

October 5th, 2008, 08:51 AM	#7
FN1910 Ex Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: SC Posts: 1,236	One thing to take into account is that anyone applying for a permit is already a person who wants to obey the law. Sort of like saying that crooks are more likely to purchase a gun illegally than law abiding citizens.

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