An anti-gun story and my argument

Kel-Tec2006 · January 25th, 2006, 10:17 AM

This is a story I commonly use when dealing with the anti-gun chanters.
Scenario 1:

You and your family of 4 have just exited off the Interstate in hopes of having a nice meal at that cozy little cabin restaurant you saw from the highway. You pull in and notice traffic is light, so the service should be quick. You and your family, which consists of your beautiful wife and 2 young daughters, have settled into your comfortable seats and are enjoying a conversation about your recent vacation and all the fun you had. You are sipping coffee and patiently waiting for your dinner when you happen to notice a strange man in a trench coat walk through the door and sit at the counter. You don't even think about the fact that he is wearing a long heavy coat and it is 85 degrees outside. You didn't notice his far away look. You just go back to the family discussion and thinking about how good that hot roast beef is going to taste. The waitress arrives with your meals, and you suddenly have this terrible feeling. Something isn't right. Your mind goes blank, you smell smoke and hear what you later describe, through your uncontrollable sobbing, as 'firecrackers' though you know that isn't at all what you heard. Snapping back to reality you see the man in the trench coat that you have forgotten about standing at the center of the diner, you see the flash from the gun as he pulls the trigger. You look to your left and see one of your baby girls slumped lifeless in her seat. You do your best to cover your family as you listen to the screams, the gunfire, and the agony. It seems like an eternity before the 'firecrackers' stop going off and you think for a brief second that life could get no worse then that very moment, and you pray to God for someone to save you and your family.

Scenario 2

Same diner, same family. This time you don't notice another family to your right. The difference this time is the leader of that family is a sheepdog, and ever since 'Mr. Trench coat' walked through the door, he has been on high alert. He noticed the coat, the look. He noticed the man's darting eyes. When 'Mr. Trench coat' stands up, the sheepdog already has his hand on his concealed weapon. His trusty .45 the he is never without. When 'Mr. Trench coat' pulls his weapon, the sheepdog reacts. Again you smell smoke and hear 'firecrackers' but it is over in a matter of seconds. The sheepdog shouts at the waitress to call '911' and immediately disarms the BG. You sit stunned at what just happened, but you and your family are safe. You will go home tonight.

The anti-gunner is a hypocrite. He slams guns and gun ownership, but would hang from the ankles of the man who saved his and his family's life with a gun. He hates guns until the moment he needs one, then he wishes he had one. He uses the 1st Amendment to attempt and destroy the 2nd.

My statements to the anti are simple and easy: I hope that one day, God forbid, when your life is on the line, that there is a sheepdog who exercises his right to keep and bear arms who will save your life.

They say to me, "You will never need a gun!"

I say to them, "It is better to have and not need, then to need and not have." Too many people die every day, too many people have their lives forever changed. Too many people rely on LE and others to protect them and their families.

Bad idea.

artz · January 25th, 2006, 10:42 AM

Those anti-gunners are jerks.

Gotta watch my mouth...

buzzg · January 25th, 2006, 10:58 AM

Interesting, and the possibility of just such a scenario is one of the reasons I carry and train. The anti response? "Well, if guns were taken away from everybody but the police and military such a scenario would not happen." I've tried similar arguments in favor of the 2nd Amendment with the anti's and it doesn't work for the most part. The anti's are, IMHO, made up primarily of two related groups. Those who truly fear firearms of all kinds and deeply believe that if you and I and our peers are disarmed then that's the end of that. The other primary group is IMHO, a "shadow" group that can be found in the background so to speak, lathering up the first group and feeding them hysteria and disinformation so that they may be used to disarm us through inappropriate use of the law and the courts. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, nor am I a hawk, but I'm not a pigeon either. With the first group, only patience and gradual instruction to remove their irrational fear of the object will turn the tide. They need to know that they are being used. Painting "doomsday" scenarios only entrenches their already deep rooted fear. The second group can be identified by their participation in government. The Boxers, Schumers, Kennedys, Feinsteins, the UN et al. They only have one fear. The armed, law abiding citizen. We stand in the way, and in this country we are the last barrier. That second group is the one that has to be banned.

P95Carry · January 25th, 2006, 12:42 PM

Sadly, too many anti's exist thru gut emotion and ignore logic and reality.

To them - eradication of guns is always their ''simple'' solution - after which all bad things would go away. Plus too for some - a pure desire to effect control.

I have always maintained, any and every rabid anti-gunner, should have to endure a lethal threat situation, unarmed - after which they just might see the light - tho I would not expect even that to alter some of them.

Kompact9 · January 25th, 2006, 03:15 PM

KEL-TEC,

Check out the following url for an answer to the antis...

http://www.jpfo.org/GCA_68.htm

Then ask them if that's what they really want for this country...

Euclidean · January 25th, 2006, 03:16 PM

I need to find the source again, but I remember there's over 1700 civilians for every single police officer.

And we all know the police never actually do anything, they're just at your beck and call 24/7 waiting for something to go down.

Yeah. I trust those odds. I believe the book was called "Dial 911 and Die"...

artz · January 25th, 2006, 03:38 PM

This actually happened to me and a party of about a dozen other hunters on opening day of dove season in California a couple of years ago. About daybreak we all met at a certain locale outside of town to shoot dove. What houses that are near are in excess of 500 yards away. I brought along a 15 yr. old boy for his first ever hunt. A friend of mine brought along his 7 yr. old daughter to act as bird dog. That is what she likes. We scattered around the area and waited for the dove. Soon the shooting began. After a few minutes, I noticed movement from a residence. This person got in his truck and was leaving. THere is 4 ways to leave the area. All on dirt roads, after all this is BLM land/ open desert. THis person was coming toward us in the vehicle. He pulled up to a couple of hunters who showed up on quads. The quads were right off the dirt road. I heard some words being expressed to the point of why were we shooting his dove. After the hunters explained to him they were not his is where he got mad. He started spinning his tires throwing rock,dirt, and dust everywhere. He quickly turn his truck around and was trying to hit the hunters with his truck. One of them he did. Nothing serious thank goodness. I good abrasion because he just dodged it. He is an older guy. The jerk in the truck didn't stop and he rammed the quads, and back up hauling butt to his house. The man that got hit shot the guys truck tailgate twice. I get on the cell phone screaming for 911. THe sheriff's dept finally get out to us. THey seperated us and we all told the tale, and they observed the damage and injury. They went to the house and arrested the guy on attempted murder, and several other charges. The guy told us the reason he didn't shoot the back window and into the back of the jerks head was because he had a family. I told him that the guy was lucky, because if it would've been me he hit. He wouldn't be breathing. The duputy's agreed.
-------------------
We all met up there again, that evening. Except for the guy who got hit by the truck. He had to go to the hospital a few hours after the incident for fear of a heart attack. This time when we started shooting the guys wife came out in a car, cussing, screaming, and what not. The daughter got involved running up and down the roads among us at hi-speed throwing dust up, scaring alot of the hunters and birds alike. So I call the game warden. He handled it from there.
'nuff said...
--------------------
the repercussions from these events forced one hunter to give up his best-loved hobby after about 40 years of hunting. A 15 year old boy and a 7 year old girl had to be explained on what had happened and why, along with why adults acted this way. The 15 y.o. continued to hunt with me beacuse I taught him good from bad, right from wrong doing so. The 7 y.o. had therapy. -------------------------

Maybe a few of you will understand why I dislike..... no.....hate these people. These are not the only incidents I have been involved in.

artz · January 25th, 2006, 03:44 PM

To the antis' everywhere....I REFUSE TO BE A VICTIM ( of one sort or another...)

Kel-Tec2006 · January 25th, 2006, 11:55 PM

To expect the police to be able to protect you is nearly as bad as the thousands that flocked to the Astrodome in hopes of being 'rescued'. Newsflash: TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN!

Nearest State Police barracks to us is 10 miles. So a BG breaks into my house-am I to call 911 and wait it out? Might take the cop on patrol in my area 15 or more minutes. A lot can happen in that time. No, my family and I wont be tied to chairs and have our throats slit while we wait for the cops to arrive. Without ever reloading or replacing, I have the capacity to fire 50 rounds. And that is just the guns that aren't locked up... :)

Miggy · January 26th, 2006, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euclidean

I need to find the source again, but I remember there's over 1700 civilians for every single police officer.

Here is what I found, hope it helps.

Quote:

U.S. Department of Justice · Office of Justice Programs
Bureau of Justice Statistics

In 2000 there were nearly 800,000 full-time sworn law enforcement officers in the United States

Type of agency Number of agencies Number of full-time
sworn officers

Total 796,518
All State and local 17,784 708,022
Local police 12,666 440,920
Sheriff 3,070 164,711
Primary State 49 56,348
Special jurisdiction 1,376 43,413
Texas constable 623 2,630
Federal* 88,496

I couldn't get the exact ratio, but I did find this website that will give you a local overview. Very interesting info.

http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonl...ch/Law/Law.cfm

January 25th, 2006, 10:17 AM	#1
Kel-Tec2006 Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Reading your mind Posts: 83	An anti-gun story and my argument This is a story I commonly use when dealing with the anti-gun chanters. Scenario 1: You and your family of 4 have just exited off the Interstate in hopes of having a nice meal at that cozy little cabin restaurant you saw from the highway. You pull in and notice traffic is light, so the service should be quick. You and your family, which consists of your beautiful wife and 2 young daughters, have settled into your comfortable seats and are enjoying a conversation about your recent vacation and all the fun you had. You are sipping coffee and patiently waiting for your dinner when you happen to notice a strange man in a trench coat walk through the door and sit at the counter. You don't even think about the fact that he is wearing a long heavy coat and it is 85 degrees outside. You didn't notice his far away look. You just go back to the family discussion and thinking about how good that hot roast beef is going to taste. The waitress arrives with your meals, and you suddenly have this terrible feeling. Something isn't right. Your mind goes blank, you smell smoke and hear what you later describe, through your uncontrollable sobbing, as 'firecrackers' though you know that isn't at all what you heard. Snapping back to reality you see the man in the trench coat that you have forgotten about standing at the center of the diner, you see the flash from the gun as he pulls the trigger. You look to your left and see one of your baby girls slumped lifeless in her seat. You do your best to cover your family as you listen to the screams, the gunfire, and the agony. It seems like an eternity before the 'firecrackers' stop going off and you think for a brief second that life could get no worse then that very moment, and you pray to God for someone to save you and your family. Scenario 2 Same diner, same family. This time you don't notice another family to your right. The difference this time is the leader of that family is a sheepdog, and ever since 'Mr. Trench coat' walked through the door, he has been on high alert. He noticed the coat, the look. He noticed the man's darting eyes. When 'Mr. Trench coat' stands up, the sheepdog already has his hand on his concealed weapon. His trusty .45 the he is never without. When 'Mr. Trench coat' pulls his weapon, the sheepdog reacts. Again you smell smoke and hear 'firecrackers' but it is over in a matter of seconds. The sheepdog shouts at the waitress to call '911' and immediately disarms the BG. You sit stunned at what just happened, but you and your family are safe. You will go home tonight. The anti-gunner is a hypocrite. He slams guns and gun ownership, but would hang from the ankles of the man who saved his and his family's life with a gun. He hates guns until the moment he needs one, then he wishes he had one. He uses the 1st Amendment to attempt and destroy the 2nd. My statements to the anti are simple and easy: I hope that one day, God forbid, when your life is on the line, that there is a sheepdog who exercises his right to keep and bear arms who will save your life. They say to me, "You will never need a gun!" I say to them, "It is better to have and not need, then to need and not have." Too many people die every day, too many people have their lives forever changed. Too many people rely on LE and others to protect them and their families. Bad idea. __________________ "Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. For when you look long into the abyss, the abyss also looks into you." Nietzsche

January 25th, 2006, 10:42 AM	#2
artz VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Georgia Posts: 2,110	Those anti-gunners are jerks. Gotta watch my mouth... Last edited by Betty; January 25th, 2006 at 12:13 PM. Reason: Yes, you do have to watch your mouth.

January 25th, 2006, 12:42 PM	#4
P95Carry Assistant Administrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South West PA Posts: 25,366	Sadly, too many anti's exist thru gut emotion and ignore logic and reality. To them - eradication of guns is always their ''simple'' solution - after which all bad things would go away. Plus too for some - a pure desire to effect control. I have always maintained, any and every rabid anti-gunner, should have to endure a lethal threat situation, unarmed - after which they just might see the light - tho I would not expect even that to alter some of them. __________________ Chris - P95 NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member. "To own a gun and assume that you are armed is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!." If a BG dies as the result of pointing a gun at me, then he has merely succumbed to an occupational hazard of being a thug

January 25th, 2006, 03:15 PM	#5
Kompact9 Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 427	KEL-TEC, Check out the following url for an answer to the antis... http://www.jpfo.org/GCA_68.htm Then ask them if that's what they really want for this country... __________________ noli nothis permittere te terere...

January 25th, 2006, 03:16 PM	#6
Euclidean VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 3,213	I need to find the source again, but I remember there's over 1700 civilians for every single police officer. And we all know the police never actually do anything, they're just at your beck and call 24/7 waiting for something to go down. Yeah. I trust those odds. I believe the book was called "Dial 911 and Die"... __________________ I am The Armed Educator.

January 25th, 2006, 10:58 AM	#3
buzzg Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Grants Pass, OR Posts: 132	Interesting, and the possibility of just such a scenario is one of the reasons I carry and train. The anti response? "Well, if guns were taken away from everybody but the police and military such a scenario would not happen." I've tried similar arguments in favor of the 2nd Amendment with the anti's and it doesn't work for the most part. The anti's are, IMHO, made up primarily of two related groups. Those who truly fear firearms of all kinds and deeply believe that if you and I and our peers are disarmed then that's the end of that. The other primary group is IMHO, a "shadow" group that can be found in the background so to speak, lathering up the first group and feeding them hysteria and disinformation so that they may be used to disarm us through inappropriate use of the law and the courts. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, nor am I a hawk, but I'm not a pigeon either. With the first group, only patience and gradual instruction to remove their irrational fear of the object will turn the tide. They need to know that they are being used. Painting "doomsday" scenarios only entrenches their already deep rooted fear. The second group can be identified by their participation in government. The Boxers, Schumers, Kennedys, Feinsteins, the UN et al. They only have one fear. The armed, law abiding citizen. We stand in the way, and in this country we are the last barrier. That second group is the one that has to be banned.

January 25th, 2006, 03:38 PM	#7
artz VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Georgia Posts: 2,110	This actually happened to me and a party of about a dozen other hunters on opening day of dove season in California a couple of years ago. About daybreak we all met at a certain locale outside of town to shoot dove. What houses that are near are in excess of 500 yards away. I brought along a 15 yr. old boy for his first ever hunt. A friend of mine brought along his 7 yr. old daughter to act as bird dog. That is what she likes. We scattered around the area and waited for the dove. Soon the shooting began. After a few minutes, I noticed movement from a residence. This person got in his truck and was leaving. THere is 4 ways to leave the area. All on dirt roads, after all this is BLM land/ open desert. THis person was coming toward us in the vehicle. He pulled up to a couple of hunters who showed up on quads. The quads were right off the dirt road. I heard some words being expressed to the point of why were we shooting his dove. After the hunters explained to him they were not his is where he got mad. He started spinning his tires throwing rock,dirt, and dust everywhere. He quickly turn his truck around and was trying to hit the hunters with his truck. One of them he did. Nothing serious thank goodness. I good abrasion because he just dodged it. He is an older guy. The jerk in the truck didn't stop and he rammed the quads, and back up hauling butt to his house. The man that got hit shot the guys truck tailgate twice. I get on the cell phone screaming for 911. THe sheriff's dept finally get out to us. THey seperated us and we all told the tale, and they observed the damage and injury. They went to the house and arrested the guy on attempted murder, and several other charges. The guy told us the reason he didn't shoot the back window and into the back of the jerks head was because he had a family. I told him that the guy was lucky, because if it would've been me he hit. He wouldn't be breathing. The duputy's agreed. ------------------- We all met up there again, that evening. Except for the guy who got hit by the truck. He had to go to the hospital a few hours after the incident for fear of a heart attack. This time when we started shooting the guys wife came out in a car, cussing, screaming, and what not. The daughter got involved running up and down the roads among us at hi-speed throwing dust up, scaring alot of the hunters and birds alike. So I call the game warden. He handled it from there. 'nuff said... -------------------- the repercussions from these events forced one hunter to give up his best-loved hobby after about 40 years of hunting. A 15 year old boy and a 7 year old girl had to be explained on what had happened and why, along with why adults acted this way. The 15 y.o. continued to hunt with me beacuse I taught him good from bad, right from wrong doing so. The 7 y.o. had therapy. ------------------------- Maybe a few of you will understand why I dislike..... no.....hate these people. These are not the only incidents I have been involved in.

January 25th, 2006, 03:44 PM	#8
artz VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Georgia Posts: 2,110	To the antis' everywhere....I REFUSE TO BE A VICTIM ( of one sort or another...) Last edited by artz; January 26th, 2006 at 01:34 AM.

January 25th, 2006, 11:55 PM	#9
Kel-Tec2006 Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Reading your mind Posts: 83	To expect the police to be able to protect you is nearly as bad as the thousands that flocked to the Astrodome in hopes of being 'rescued'. Newsflash: TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN! Nearest State Police barracks to us is 10 miles. So a BG breaks into my house-am I to call 911 and wait it out? Might take the cop on patrol in my area 15 or more minutes. A lot can happen in that time. No, my family and I wont be tied to chairs and have our throats slit while we wait for the cops to arrive. Without ever reloading or replacing, I have the capacity to fire 50 rounds. And that is just the guns that aren't locked up... :) __________________ "Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. For when you look long into the abyss, the abyss also looks into you." Nietzsche

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