What you think Seen this on NRA Fourm

lostone1413 · February 13th, 2006, 04:05 PM

Mixed feelings here see good in the bill but see some bad to what do you think? Can read what some are saying on www.keepandbeararms.com

The Stearns Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Bill

U.S. Rep. Cliff Stearns` (R-Fla.) national Right-to-Carry (RTC) reciprocity bill, H.R. 4547, would allow any person with a valid concealed firearm carrying permit or license, issued by a state, to carry a concealed firearm in any other state, as follows: In states that issue concealed firearm permits, a state`s laws governing where concealed firearms may be carried would apply within its own borders. In states that do not issue carry permits, a federal "bright-line" standard would permit carrying in places other than police stations; courthouses; public polling places; meetings of state, county, or municipal governing bodies; schools; passenger areas of airports; and certain other locations. H.R. 4547 would also apply to D.C., Puerto Rico and U.S. territories. The bill would not create a federal licensing system; it would require the states to recognize each others` carry permits, just as they recognize drivers` licenses and carry permits held by armored car guards. Rep. Stearns has introduced such legislation since 1995.

Today, 46 states have laws permitting concealed carry, in some circumstances. Thirty-eight states, accounting for two-thirds of the U.S. population, have RTC laws. Thirty-four have "shall issue" permit laws (including Alaska, which also allows carrying without a permit), three have fairly administered "discretionary issue" permit laws, and Vermont allows carrying without a permit. (Eight states have restrictive discretionary issue laws.) Most RTC states have adopted their laws during the last decade.
Citizens with carry permits are more law-abiding than the general public. Only 0.02% of more than a half million permits issued by Florida have been revoked because of firearm crimes by permit holders. Similarly low percentages of permits have been revoked in Texas, Virginia, and other RTC states that keep such statistics. RTC is widely supported by law enforcement officials and groups.
States with RTC laws have lower violent crime rates. On average, 21% lower total violent crime, 28% lower murder, 43% lower robbery, and 13% lower aggravated assault, compared to the rest of the country. Nine of the 10 states with the lowest violent crime rates are RTC states. (Data: FBI.)
Crime declines in states with RTC laws. Since adopting RTC in 1987, Florida`s total violent crime and murder rates have dropped 31% and 52%, respectively. Texas` violent crime and murder rates have dropped 19% and 33%, respectively, since its 1996 RTC law. (Data: FBI.)
The right of self-defense is fundamental, and has been recognized in law for centuries. The Declaration of Independence asserts that "life" is among the unalienable rights of all people. The Second Amendment guarantees the right of the people to keep and bear arms for "security."
The laws of all states and constitutions of most states recognize the right to use force in self-defense. The Supreme Court has stated that a person "may repel force by force" in self-defense, and is "entitled to stand his ground and meet any attack made upon him with a deadly weapon, in such a way and with such force" as needed to prevent "great bodily injury or death." (Beard v. U.S., 1895)
Congress affirmed the right to guns for "protective purposes" in the Gun Control Act (1968) and Firearm Owners` Protection Act (1986). In 1982, the Senate Judiciary Committee Subcommittee on the Constitution described the right to arms as "a right of the individual citizen to privately possess and carry in a peaceful manner firearms and similar arms."

Posted: 1/31/2006

HotGuns · February 13th, 2006, 04:46 PM

Quote:

The bill would not create a federal licensing system; it would require the states to recognize each others` carry permits, just as they recognize drivers` licenses and carry permits held by armored car guards. Rep. Stearns has introduced such legislation since 1995.

Ive got a few thoughts on this...

I've always thought that the best legislation would be one where the various states simply agreed to honor each others permits...and in doing so keeping the Federal Government out of the process.

Some states, such as Missouri, have included this provision in its concealed carry law which simply states that any valid permit from another state will be honored. As written, it is a good law.

It would be exellent if all other states would include that in their written law, but in reality, I dont see it ever happening as it appears that we still have several states where life is cheap and the politicians want to have the power of life or death over its law abiding citizens.

I say that because only law abiding people obey the law.Since the thugs out there dont, they continue to rape,plunder and pillage the folks that wont have the means to defend themselves because they choose to obey the law. When they finally figure out that the Police wont be there every second of every day to protect them, and they do aquire a gun to defend themselves with, it seems like the state will spend more time and effort trying to prosecute the victim of a crime for breaking the law and defending themselves with a gun than they will the perp that initiated the crime and to me that is criminal,unjust and completley unnessecary.

So...it appears that this bill may be what it takes to even up the odds so to speak...at least for visiting citizens that are used to carrying a concealed weapon and takeing responsibility for the defense of themselves and their familys.

We have already seen the Police get legislation passed that allowed them to carry in any state. I feel that because of that , this particular bill is one step closer to coming to law than it was before.

I am less than enthusiastic about the Federal Government coming up with a law that says its OK to tote in another state, but I cant see my life being less valuable say in Illinois, than it is my home state where I can carry. Unfortunatley, it may take an act of the Federal Government to make it happen.

lostone1413 · February 13th, 2006, 05:56 PM

I feel about like you do about this. Thing is you will never see it become law. I've voted Republican all my voting life but I must say for now on it will be a 3rd party I vote for. With the Republicans in control of everything. This being the first time in over 50 years. To say what meaning nothing has been done for us gun owners and what has been done to what little is left of the Republic. Using the word disappointed would be an under statement.

Sheldon J · February 13th, 2006, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Today, 46 states have laws permitting concealed carry, in some circumstances. Thirty-eight states, accounting for two-thirds of the U.S. population, have RTC laws.

That is the key 46 states before when this was tried it was somewhat fewer we are developing political clout and eventually we will be sucessfull.

P95Carry · February 13th, 2006, 07:12 PM

HotGuns has saved me a lot of typing - thx dude!!

That says pretty much my thinking - and seemingly it is not as totally ''Fed'' as I had originally thought. I do find it hard to see it pass tho - if only because right now some reciprocity is limited due to variations in state's training requirements - PA of course having none that is mandated.

Hard let's say to start with a level playing field.

HotGuns · February 13th, 2006, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Thing is you will never see it become law

Thats what I used to think about CCW laws in general. Twenty or so years ago it was argued by both sides that it would never happen.

Through my gunclub and other contacts with the local politicians, I did everything I could to advance the cause because I knew that it had to start somewhere even if I honestly thought that I would never see it in my lifetime. You've got to admit, with the anti-gun news media doing their best to criminalize guns and gun ownership, it really seemed like swimming upstream at times.

Eventually, it came to pass. More states got on the bandwagon when they saw the effects of it and now we have a good majority of states with shall issue laws.

The next logical step should be state to state recognition.

NEVER is a long time...

HR 218 came to pass and it took over 10 years. That's the bill that allows any sworn officer to carry across state lines off duty. Same thing with that one, it was argued that it would never pass.

The thing is...that all the states have different training standards to qualify CCW. My own requires 5 hours, and P95Carry's is zero. Its the various training standards that prevent many states from honoring each others permits.
As an example...
In Arkansas we can carry in Texas,Missouri,Tennessee,Oklahoma, but we cant carry in Louisisana or Mississippi because our training standards dont meet thier criteria. All of these states border our own.
I trave to La. and Miss. occasionally to work or visit kinfolk, and there I cant carry my gun legally.

As much as I hate to see a Federal Law that lets us carry in ALL other states, it may be the only way for it to ever happen. As it stands now, I cant really see the northeastern and other various antigun states ever allowing it unless the Fed. Gov. makes it so.

Scott F · February 13th, 2006, 11:05 PM

I am for this law 100%. I live in Oregon, a shall issue state. But as good as Oregon’s law is, and it is a great law with almost no limitations, Oregon recognizes NO other states carry permits. Neither does California. So if I want to go see my daughter in Washington I have to spend the fifty dollars for a Washington permit. If I want to go see my son in San Diego I can not carry and trust me there is no I want to carry more.

I can drive from Alaska to Florida on an Oregon driver’s license. I should be able to carry in every state too without having to spend a lot playing the non resident license game.

Just think how the wonderful people in NYC and Chicago as well as LA will faint when we can carry there.

Tom357 · February 14th, 2006, 06:43 PM

Never may be a long time, but we will surely lose ground if the Dems regain control of Congress. I don't care for the Republicans or the neo-cons, particularly, but there is no realistic third choice that doesn't put us at risk of giving control back to an increasingly shrill, Democratic party dominated by the far left.

PatrioticRick · February 14th, 2006, 07:01 PM

All ready posted http://www.combatcarry.com/vbulletin...ead.php?t=6813

AirForceShooter · February 17th, 2006, 12:43 PM

Think NY, Cali, Mass or NJ would honor this law?

AFS

February 13th, 2006, 04:05 PM	#1
lostone1413 Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 91	What you think Seen this on NRA Fourm Mixed feelings here see good in the bill but see some bad to what do you think? Can read what some are saying on www.keepandbeararms.com The Stearns Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Bill U.S. Rep. Cliff Stearns` (R-Fla.) national Right-to-Carry (RTC) reciprocity bill, H.R. 4547, would allow any person with a valid concealed firearm carrying permit or license, issued by a state, to carry a concealed firearm in any other state, as follows: In states that issue concealed firearm permits, a state`s laws governing where concealed firearms may be carried would apply within its own borders. In states that do not issue carry permits, a federal "bright-line" standard would permit carrying in places other than police stations; courthouses; public polling places; meetings of state, county, or municipal governing bodies; schools; passenger areas of airports; and certain other locations. H.R. 4547 would also apply to D.C., Puerto Rico and U.S. territories. The bill would not create a federal licensing system; it would require the states to recognize each others` carry permits, just as they recognize drivers` licenses and carry permits held by armored car guards. Rep. Stearns has introduced such legislation since 1995. Today, 46 states have laws permitting concealed carry, in some circumstances. Thirty-eight states, accounting for two-thirds of the U.S. population, have RTC laws. Thirty-four have "shall issue" permit laws (including Alaska, which also allows carrying without a permit), three have fairly administered "discretionary issue" permit laws, and Vermont allows carrying without a permit. (Eight states have restrictive discretionary issue laws.) Most RTC states have adopted their laws during the last decade. Citizens with carry permits are more law-abiding than the general public. Only 0.02% of more than a half million permits issued by Florida have been revoked because of firearm crimes by permit holders. Similarly low percentages of permits have been revoked in Texas, Virginia, and other RTC states that keep such statistics. RTC is widely supported by law enforcement officials and groups. States with RTC laws have lower violent crime rates. On average, 21% lower total violent crime, 28% lower murder, 43% lower robbery, and 13% lower aggravated assault, compared to the rest of the country. Nine of the 10 states with the lowest violent crime rates are RTC states. (Data: FBI.) Crime declines in states with RTC laws. Since adopting RTC in 1987, Florida`s total violent crime and murder rates have dropped 31% and 52%, respectively. Texas` violent crime and murder rates have dropped 19% and 33%, respectively, since its 1996 RTC law. (Data: FBI.) The right of self-defense is fundamental, and has been recognized in law for centuries. The Declaration of Independence asserts that "life" is among the unalienable rights of all people. The Second Amendment guarantees the right of the people to keep and bear arms for "security." The laws of all states and constitutions of most states recognize the right to use force in self-defense. The Supreme Court has stated that a person "may repel force by force" in self-defense, and is "entitled to stand his ground and meet any attack made upon him with a deadly weapon, in such a way and with such force" as needed to prevent "great bodily injury or death." (Beard v. U.S., 1895) Congress affirmed the right to guns for "protective purposes" in the Gun Control Act (1968) and Firearm Owners` Protection Act (1986). In 1982, the Senate Judiciary Committee Subcommittee on the Constitution described the right to arms as "a right of the individual citizen to privately possess and carry in a peaceful manner firearms and similar arms." Posted: 1/31/2006

February 13th, 2006, 07:12 PM	#5
P95Carry Assistant Administrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South West PA Posts: 25,366	HotGuns has saved me a lot of typing - thx dude!! That says pretty much my thinking - and seemingly it is not as totally ''Fed'' as I had originally thought. I do find it hard to see it pass tho - if only because right now some reciprocity is limited due to variations in state's training requirements - PA of course having none that is mandated. Hard let's say to start with a level playing field. __________________ Chris - P95 NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member. "To own a gun and assume that you are armed is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!." If a BG dies as the result of pointing a gun at me, then he has merely succumbed to an occupational hazard of being a thug

February 13th, 2006, 11:05 PM	#7
Scott F Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Central Oregon Posts: 35	I am for this law 100%. I live in Oregon, a shall issue state. But as good as Oregon’s law is, and it is a great law with almost no limitations, Oregon recognizes NO other states carry permits. Neither does California. So if I want to go see my daughter in Washington I have to spend the fifty dollars for a Washington permit. If I want to go see my son in San Diego I can not carry and trust me there is no I want to carry more. I can drive from Alaska to Florida on an Oregon driver’s license. I should be able to carry in every state too without having to spend a lot playing the non resident license game. Just think how the wonderful people in NYC and Chicago as well as LA will faint when we can carry there. __________________ In HIS Service Scott F

February 14th, 2006, 06:43 PM	#8
Tom357 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Richmond VA Posts: 686	Never may be a long time, but we will surely lose ground if the Dems regain control of Congress. I don't care for the Republicans or the neo-cons, particularly, but there is no realistic third choice that doesn't put us at risk of giving control back to an increasingly shrill, Democratic party dominated by the far left. __________________ - Tom You have the power to donate life.

February 14th, 2006, 07:01 PM	#9
PatrioticRick VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rigby, Idaho Posts: 3,148	All ready posted http://www.combatcarry.com/vbulletin...ead.php?t=6813 __________________ "Someone breaking into our Country should have to face the same outcome as someone breaking into our home. I fail to see what the difference is." USN/USAF Retired/Desert Shield/Desert Storm DAV Life Member NRA Life Member

February 13th, 2006, 05:56 PM	#3
lostone1413 Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 91	I feel about like you do about this. Thing is you will never see it become law. I've voted Republican all my voting life but I must say for now on it will be a 3rd party I vote for. With the Republicans in control of everything. This being the first time in over 50 years. To say what meaning nothing has been done for us gun owners and what has been done to what little is left of the Republic. Using the word disappointed would be an under statement.

February 17th, 2006, 12:43 PM	#10
AirForceShooter Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Central Florida Posts: 1,146	Think NY, Cali, Mass or NJ would honor this law? AFS __________________ Gun control is hitting what you aim at

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode