Bad News in Montana

ExSoldier · March 18th, 2006, 02:03 PM

Rifle Range Gets the Boot From Mont. Park

Mar 18, 2:31 AM (ET)

By SUSAN GALLAGHER

HELENA, Mont. (AP) - Erosion by wind and water is a big part of the story at Makoshika State Park, a place of badlands and dinosaur fossils, bobcats and bluebirds. Now some people who enjoy firing guns at a range there fear erosion of what they have come to view as an entitlement.

The state parks agency plans to eliminate a decades-old rifle range at Makoshika, a rolling expanse of peculiar sandstone formations in eastern Montana. The 11,500-acre park gets about 54,000 visits a year, and is especially popular among gun enthusiasts in Glendive, about a quarter-mile from the rifle range and its plywood targets.

"Things have changed," said Tom Reilly, an assistant administrator in the Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks. "Now we have a visitor center on one side and a public campground on the other."
Shooting may disturb people who "come from New Jersey to camp and wake up to gunfire," he said "We may be used to that, living here, but others may not be."

The state agency's new 10-year management plan for Makoshika calls for moving the shooting range, but no new site has been selected.

That concerns Glendive shooters such as Ernest Huether, who sells and repairs guns. He worries the alternative to the state range will be a private one, with fees and a less convenient location.

Another shooter, Henry Mischel of the Dawson County Rod & Gun Club, said state planners should keep in mind that guns are a traditional part of life in Montana.

His response to concerns about visitors: "I don't like the sound of sirens when I go to a big city, but I have to deal with it."

Mischel said the rifle range has existed at least for the 50 years he has lived in Glendive. On a busy day, the range - passed by visitors heading to the park's interior - draws dozens of shooters carrying handguns and rifles.

The new Makoshika plan, prepared after study of recommendations from a public advisory group, was approved in late 2005 by Jeff Hagener, director of Fish, Wildlife and Parks.

The state commission overseeing the agency will take up an appeal Monday by John N. Haas of Glendive, who has challenged removal of the range. Eliminating it might be OK were there a suitable replacement, but one has not been found, Haas said.

"I'm not sure that a suitable replacement site exists - it depends on what is defined as suitable," he wrote in the appeal. And without an alternative site, he said, "future development within the park cannot successfully be planned around a faulty assumption that the range will be moved."

There have been no reports of accidents or close calls associated with the range, but the plan says "the possibility of a misfire" into a populated area cannot be ignored.

"People wander all over," said Jim Swanson of the park advocacy group Friends of Makoshika. "They can drop over a hill and, boom, they're right in a rifle range."
---

ExSoldier · March 18th, 2006, 02:05 PM

I've never been to Montana, but would love to go as I have always thought of it...like Texas....as a haven for patriotic Americans. Sheeeeesh if it can happen there it can happen anywhere!

P95Carry · March 18th, 2006, 02:10 PM

Jim - I have no need to make quotes - because you placed your smilies so perfectly!!!

They say all I need to say too.

This compares well with instances where a range has been in use for decades and some high flier developer goes and builds a bunch of new houses half a mile away - into which move out-of-towners looking for the suburban/rural life - who then start a campaign to close said range because the noise bothers them!

Another parallel - the guy who wants country living, but then moans about his near neighbor who farms hogs - the smell ''upsets'' him!

''Goes with the territory'' folks!!!!!!!!!!!

Gunnutty · March 18th, 2006, 03:48 PM

Goes with the territory!!! Amen to that Chris.

Rock and Glock · March 18th, 2006, 03:52 PM

I have an "Unofficial" Teller County, Colorado "Informational Flyer" for new residents from "less rural" areas. Included therein is information on how to "get along" with your neighbors who've lived there a lot longer.....like: "Don't let your dogs chase their cattle. They'll get shot"...

Times change. Daniel Boone moved west to get away from too many people. Still happening.

srfl · March 18th, 2006, 04:01 PM

Darn it! 50 years at the sight and NOW it's a problem? Sheesh!

Tom357 · March 18th, 2006, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P95Carry

...This compares well with instances where a range has been in use for decades and some high flier developer goes and builds a bunch of new houses half a mile away - into which move out-of-towners looking for the suburban/rural life - who then start a campaign to close said range because the noise bothers them!...

This very thing just happened, here in Henrico County. Development has surrounded a long-established (private) range, and the newcomers decided it was noisy living right next to a range, and attempted to have it shutdown (as they did a long-established quarry in the area, too). The range won. Further, a new law was just passed preventing such ranges around the state from being condemned for similar reasons.

P95Carry · March 18th, 2006, 06:35 PM

Quote:

The range won. Further, a new law was just passed preventing such ranges around the state from being condemned for similar reasons.

The way it should be Tom - 100%. Call it the ''I was here first law'' - makes total sense.

Heck, I get so tired of these moaners - who either did not check the area properly first or just decide later they don't like it!!! Wha, wha, wha!

OldDawg · March 18th, 2006, 07:16 PM

We are having the same problem here in Idaho with a range that was given to the people by the military out at Faragut State Park, When the Military gave the old base to the state part of the agreement was that the range would be available for the public, Now that movie stars & high rollers have moved into the area they are starting to complain. Needless to say we are in a huge battle to keep this range & to update it so we can use it for competitions. It seems that the sound of gunfire in the morning upsets some people . This range has been an active range for atleast 75years. Why Now is it a problem???

Damn liberals.........

Captain Crunch · March 18th, 2006, 07:57 PM

Quote:

There have been no reports of accidents or close calls associated with the range, but the plan says "the possibility of a misfire" into a populated area cannot be ignored.

The possibility of being struck by lightning can't be ignored, either.

According to how I read Montana state law, the Glendive range should be grandfathered.

Here's the pertinent statute:

76-9-105. Closure of shooting ranges -- limitations -- relocation cost. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), an established shooting range may not be prevented from operation by a state agency, unit of local government, or court unless the range presents a clear and provable safety hazard to the adjacent population.
(2) If a pressing public need exists because of incompatibility with nearby population or land use, an established shooting range may be relocated by an agency of state government, unit of local government, or court, but only if all of the following conditions are met:
(a) pressing public need is documented through hearings, testimony, and a clear and precise statement of need by the agency, unit of local government, or court involved;
(b) the agency or unit of local government obtaining the closure pays the appraised cost of the land together with improvements to the operators of the shooting range. In return the shooting range operators shall relinquish their interest in the property to the agency or unit of local government obtaining the closure.
(3) If a shooting range presents a clear and provable safety hazard to adjacent population, the range may be suspended from operation if:
(a) reasonable notice and opportunity to respond are afforded the range operators; and
(b) reasonable opportunity is afforded the range operators to correct any safety defects.

March 18th, 2006, 02:03 PM	#1
ExSoldier VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Coral Gables, FL Posts: 4,207	Bad News in Montana Rifle Range Gets the Boot From Mont. Park Mar 18, 2:31 AM (ET) By SUSAN GALLAGHER HELENA, Mont. (AP) - Erosion by wind and water is a big part of the story at Makoshika State Park, a place of badlands and dinosaur fossils, bobcats and bluebirds. Now some people who enjoy firing guns at a range there fear erosion of what they have come to view as an entitlement. The state parks agency plans to eliminate a decades-old rifle range at Makoshika, a rolling expanse of peculiar sandstone formations in eastern Montana. The 11,500-acre park gets about 54,000 visits a year, and is especially popular among gun enthusiasts in Glendive, about a quarter-mile from the rifle range and its plywood targets. "Things have changed," said Tom Reilly, an assistant administrator in the Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks. "Now we have a visitor center on one side and a public campground on the other." Shooting may disturb people who "come from New Jersey to camp and wake up to gunfire," he said "We may be used to that, living here, but others may not be." The state agency's new 10-year management plan for Makoshika calls for moving the shooting range, but no new site has been selected. That concerns Glendive shooters such as Ernest Huether, who sells and repairs guns. He worries the alternative to the state range will be a private one, with fees and a less convenient location. Another shooter, Henry Mischel of the Dawson County Rod & Gun Club, said state planners should keep in mind that guns are a traditional part of life in Montana. His response to concerns about visitors: "I don't like the sound of sirens when I go to a big city, but I have to deal with it." Mischel said the rifle range has existed at least for the 50 years he has lived in Glendive. On a busy day, the range - passed by visitors heading to the park's interior - draws dozens of shooters carrying handguns and rifles. The new Makoshika plan, prepared after study of recommendations from a public advisory group, was approved in late 2005 by Jeff Hagener, director of Fish, Wildlife and Parks. The state commission overseeing the agency will take up an appeal Monday by John N. Haas of Glendive, who has challenged removal of the range. Eliminating it might be OK were there a suitable replacement, but one has not been found, Haas said. "I'm not sure that a suitable replacement site exists - it depends on what is defined as suitable," he wrote in the appeal. And without an alternative site, he said, "future development within the park cannot successfully be planned around a faulty assumption that the range will be moved." There have been no reports of accidents or close calls associated with the range, but the plan says "the possibility of a misfire" into a populated area cannot be ignored. "People wander all over," said Jim Swanson of the park advocacy group Friends of Makoshika. "They can drop over a hill and, boom, they're right in a rifle range." --- __________________ Former Infantry Captain; 20 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

March 18th, 2006, 02:05 PM	#2
ExSoldier VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Coral Gables, FL Posts: 4,207	I've never been to Montana, but would love to go as I have always thought of it...like Texas....as a haven for patriotic Americans. Sheeeeesh if it can happen there it can happen anywhere! __________________ Former Infantry Captain; 20 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

March 18th, 2006, 02:10 PM	#3
P95Carry Assistant Administrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South West PA Posts: 25,366	Jim - I have no need to make quotes - because you placed your smilies so perfectly!!! They say all I need to say too. This compares well with instances where a range has been in use for decades and some high flier developer goes and builds a bunch of new houses half a mile away - into which move out-of-towners looking for the suburban/rural life - who then start a campaign to close said range because the noise bothers them! Another parallel - the guy who wants country living, but then moans about his near neighbor who farms hogs - the smell ''upsets'' him! ''Goes with the territory'' folks!!!!!!!!!!! __________________ Chris - P95 NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member. "To own a gun and assume that you are armed is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!." If a BG dies as the result of pointing a gun at me, then he has merely succumbed to an occupational hazard of being a thug

March 18th, 2006, 03:52 PM	#5
Rock and Glock VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado at 9,500' Posts: 3,748	I have an "Unofficial" Teller County, Colorado "Informational Flyer" for new residents from "less rural" areas. Included therein is information on how to "get along" with your neighbors who've lived there a lot longer.....like: "Don't let your dogs chase their cattle. They'll get shot"... Times change. Daniel Boone moved west to get away from too many people. Still happening. __________________ Richard NRA Life Member "This world is not a playground where children at play are pampered by friendly nannies," Wendelin Wiedeking

March 18th, 2006, 04:01 PM	#6
srfl Senior Moderator Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: FL Posts: 6,270	Darn it! 50 years at the sight and NOW it's a problem? Sheesh! __________________ USAF: Loving Our Obscene Amenities Since 1947

March 18th, 2006, 03:48 PM	#4
Gunnutty Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Arkansas Posts: 915	Goes with the territory!!! Amen to that Chris.

March 18th, 2006, 07:16 PM	#9
OldDawg Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Spokane, Wa Posts: 70	We are having the same problem here in Idaho with a range that was given to the people by the military out at Faragut State Park, When the Military gave the old base to the state part of the agreement was that the range would be available for the public, Now that movie stars & high rollers have moved into the area they are starting to complain. Needless to say we are in a huge battle to keep this range & to update it so we can use it for competitions. It seems that the sound of gunfire in the morning upsets some people . This range has been an active range for atleast 75years. Why Now is it a problem??? Damn liberals......... __________________ Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death, there is no appeal and execution is carried out automatically and without pity.

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