Concealed Carry in Delaware Almost a Reality!

ExSoldier · March 24th, 2006, 11:39 AM

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/p...0338/-1/NEWS01
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Panel OKs easing concealed gun rules
Police chiefs pack hall to show opposition
By J.L. MILLER

03/23/2006
DOVER -- Legislation to make it easier for Delawareans to obtain permits to carry concealed handguns cleared a House committee Wednesday despite strong opposition from police chiefs, clergy members and gun-control activists James and Sarah Brady.

The House Public Safety Committee voted 4-2, with one abstention, to clear House Bill 359 for consideration by the full House. A vote could come as early as today.

Legislative Hall was flooded by a sea of blue uniforms as members of the Delaware Police Chiefs Council entered the House chamber to demonstrate their opposition to the bill, which would eliminate a requirement that applicants for permits provide a Superior Court judge with a compelling reason to issue one.

Under the legislation, applicants still would have to meet other current requirements, including passing a mandatory criminal background check, obtaining five character references from the county in which they live and successfully completing a training course. The judge would be required to issue a permit if the applicant met the requirements and no grounds were presented for denying it.

Most opponents of the legislation conceded from the outset that the bill was likely to clear the committee, because it already has enough sponsors to pass both the House and the Senate.

They tried instead to slow it down, to point out what they considered to be flaws in the bill. But even that effort appeared to fall short.

Former presidential press secretary James Brady, who was shot and grievously wounded in a 1981 attempt on President Reagan's life, pleaded with the committee to reject the bill.

'Powerless'

"Twenty-five years ago next Thursday, a team of eight law-enforcement agents with the Secret Service ... were powerless to stop a deeply disturbed individual carrying a concealed handgun" from very nearly killing the president, Brady said.

"That man shot me, too," said Brady, who has had to use a wheelchair since the shooting.

"I implore you to respect the judgment of law enforcement," he said, calling the legislation "reckless public policy."

Brady and his wife, who now live in Rehoboth Beach, have crusaded for stricter gun laws through the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

Sarah Brady told the committee that the bill "should be preceded by a thorough analysis" and asked that the legislators establish a task force to study it.

"You have to stop and ask yourself, why on earth would anyone need to pack heat in day-care centers ... at ballgames, at the beach. It's totally irresponsible," she said.

"Putting more guns on the street, concealed weapons, is something too serious to take in one step," she said.

Newport Police Chief Michael Capriglione, president of the Delaware Police Chiefs Council, told the lawmakers that the bill "has been done in a vacuum."

"Is the system really broken?" Capriglione asked, adding that Florida, which has a system similar to the one proposed in H.B. 359, has seen gang members with clean criminal records obtaining permits and acting as enforcers for their partners in crime.

But Millsboro Republican Rep. John C. Atkins replied that he had "a hard time believing that a gang member ... would be willing to go through a background check, have his fingerprints on record, and then go before a judge" to ask for a permit.

Wave of gun violence

Wilmington Police Chief Michael Szczerba, whose city has the state's highest violent-crime rate and had a near-record number of shootings in 2004, reiterated his strong opposition to the bill.

The wave of gun violence in Wilmington led to the formation of the Hope Commission to explore ways to stem the carnage. The shootings and the group's finding also helped motivate a recent change in policing in Wilmington to move closer to communities.

Szczerba said H.B. 359 is not in keeping with the effort to rid Wilmington of gun violence.

"This will not improve public safety," Szczerba said. "It's also an issue of officer safety."

With more people carrying handguns, he said, officers arriving at a crime scene could find it difficult "to tell the bad guy from the good guy and the bad girl from the good girl."

An amendment to H.B. 359 would prohibit concealed-carry holders from taking a firearm into a school, but Dover Police Chief Jeffrey Horvath said that prohibition should be extended to cover all school functions, particularly outdoor athletic events such as football games.

Horvath also said the requirement for just one gun-safety course is not enough -- even though that is all that is required under current law.

"[Police officers] have to qualify twice a year," Horvath said. "If you're not proficient with a firearm, you shouldn't be carrying."

The Rev. Bruce Gillette, co-pastor of Limestone Presbyterian Church, wondered whether his parishioners would carry concealed handguns into his Sunday services. "I've buried people

who have been killed by handguns," Gillette said, urging the legislators to "take some time to do some study."

But the bill's chief House sponsor, Rep. Deborah Hudson, R-Fairthorne, rejected calls for delaying the bill, saying that the concerns raised would be addressed by releasing it for a House vote.

"That makes people run off to rooms and make things happen," she said.

The only testimony in favor of the bill was from John J. Thompson, lobbyist for the Delaware State Sportsmen's Association. That group and the affiliated National Rifle Association are pushing H.B. 359.

"We are not interested in seeing the wild, wild West take place," said Thompson, who has a concealed-carry permit.

"We just don't think that unelected bureaucrats and people in the Attorney General's Office should be making the decision about whether I can protect myself," Thompson said.

Hudson said after the hearing that she is willing to address some of the issues raised when the bill comes to the floor. "I'm a compromiser, and they had some very good ideas," she said.

Contact J.L. Miller at 678-4271 or jlmiller@delawareonline.com.

James Brady called on legislators to respect the judgment of police.

Wilmington police Chief Michael Szczerba says the bill "will not improve public safety" and endangers officers.

dr_cmg · March 24th, 2006, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExSoldier762

With more people carrying handguns, he said, officers arriving at a crime scene could find it difficult "to tell the bad guy from the good guy and the bad girl from the good girl."

Yup, its real easy now to tell the BG from the GG. The GG is the one lying on the ground in a pool of blood.

Zundfolge · March 24th, 2006, 12:41 PM

Quote:

"Twenty-five years ago next Thursday, a team of eight law-enforcement agents with the Secret Service ... were powerless to stop a deeply disturbed individual carrying a concealed handgun" from very nearly killing the president, Brady said.

Yep...powerless...just like every law abiding citizen who is denied the free exercise of their 2A right to carry a gun. So Mr. Brady here is suggesting that the law abiding be kept just as powerless.

Shameful Mr. Brady, shameful.

P95Carry · March 24th, 2006, 01:58 PM

Quote:

"I've buried people who have been killed by handguns," Gillette said, urging the legislators to "take some time to do some study."

Hmmm - does not say whether the buried are good guys or bad guys - I'd guess more the former!!! Answer - concentrate on the bad guys and let the good guys be able to avoid being buried - simple really!!!

Hope it goes thru - be yet another move in right direction. Overall in the last several months - mostly since FL got even more improved, there has been a steady trend towards sensibility - long may it continue.

HotGuns · March 24th, 2006, 02:07 PM

Same old tired rhetoric that has been used in at least 38 different states in arguments against the common man carrying a gun to protect himself.

Quote:

You have to stop and ask yourself, why on earth would anyone need to pack heat in day-care centers ... at ballgames, at the beach. It's totally irresponsible," she said.

Hmmm lets see. Its already illegal in most states to carry in a school,day care center or ballgame. Somehow I have a hard time beleiving that she dosent know that already. What is "irresponsible" is for her to use what is already illegal to bolster her argument.

Quote:

Newport Police Chief Michael Capriglione, president of the Delaware Police Chiefs Council, told the lawmakers that the bill "has been done in a vacuum."

Hmmm...lets see about that.

Legislative Hall was flooded by a sea of blue uniforms as members of the Delaware Police Chiefs Council entered the House chamber to demonstrate their opposition to the bill,

Most opponents of the legislation conceded from the outset that the bill was likely to clear the committee, because it already has enough sponsors to pass both the House and the Senate.

Sarah Brady told the committee that the bill "should be preceded by a thorough analysis" and asked that the legislators establish a task force to study it

The only testimony in favor of the bill was from John J. Thompson, lobbyist for the Delaware State Sportsmen's Association. That group and the affiliated National Rifle Association are pushing H.B. 359.

James Brady called on legislators to respect the judgment of police.

It appears that a sea of blue uniforms,polices chiefs, the Brady bunch and even a single member that spoke on behalf of the bill was there.
I would suppose that something being done in a "vacuum" in Delaware must have a diffferent meaning that it does in the rest of the country.

Quote:

"[Police officers] have to qualify twice a year," Horvath said. "If you're not proficient with a firearm, you shouldn't be carrying."

Great. Lets mandate that the training rival what most swat teams or CTU's go through. They could make it difficult enough that nobody could pass it. Then they wouldnt have to worry about it.

Quote:

Wilmington Police Chief Michael Szczerba, whose city has the state's highest violent-crime rate and had a near-record number of shootings in 2004, reiterated his strong opposition to the bill.

The antigunners are idiots. If they werent, NO states would have any concealed weapon permits. Apparently the police chief cant understand that gangbangers killing each other on a daily basis isnt the same as good hard working folks that only want the ability to protect themselves.

Its all good though. The antis havent figured out that their tactics of misrepresentation of fact, distortions of the truth and their outright bold faced lies havent been working. As long as they keep up the same crap, it just about guarantees that eventually ALL 50 states will someday have some CCW laws.

The ball is rolling in our favor and they are about to get smashed with it.

500Mag · March 24th, 2006, 06:30 PM

Hopefully there's more than a snowball's chance that they get some reciprocity with PA since I'm a stones throw from the border and do go to the "first state" on a somewhat frequent basis for it's tax free shopping.

Note: DE is an open carry state, I've seen it, but I'd rather not get harrassed and likely arrested if I didn't have to.

ibex · March 25th, 2006, 04:37 AM

Funny how the Bradys only say that you should "respect the judgement of law enforcement" when said judgement is conform with their agenda. Many LEOs know they can't protect everyone all the time and recommend CCW to worried citizens. This kind of judgement from law enforcement can and should be ignored, of course. Yeah. Right.

srfl · March 25th, 2006, 04:31 PM

I hope this passes in DE! Having been stationed at Dover AFB, I would have loved to have seen this happen back then....well, now's the chance.

....to my fellow LEO's that support killing this piece of legislation....FOR SHAME!!!

March 24th, 2006, 11:39 AM	#1
ExSoldier VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Coral Gables, FL Posts: 4,207	Concealed Carry in Delaware Almost a Reality! http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/p...0338/-1/NEWS01 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Panel OKs easing concealed gun rules Police chiefs pack hall to show opposition By J.L. MILLER 03/23/2006 DOVER -- Legislation to make it easier for Delawareans to obtain permits to carry concealed handguns cleared a House committee Wednesday despite strong opposition from police chiefs, clergy members and gun-control activists James and Sarah Brady. The House Public Safety Committee voted 4-2, with one abstention, to clear House Bill 359 for consideration by the full House. A vote could come as early as today. Legislative Hall was flooded by a sea of blue uniforms as members of the Delaware Police Chiefs Council entered the House chamber to demonstrate their opposition to the bill, which would eliminate a requirement that applicants for permits provide a Superior Court judge with a compelling reason to issue one. Under the legislation, applicants still would have to meet other current requirements, including passing a mandatory criminal background check, obtaining five character references from the county in which they live and successfully completing a training course. The judge would be required to issue a permit if the applicant met the requirements and no grounds were presented for denying it. Most opponents of the legislation conceded from the outset that the bill was likely to clear the committee, because it already has enough sponsors to pass both the House and the Senate. They tried instead to slow it down, to point out what they considered to be flaws in the bill. But even that effort appeared to fall short. Former presidential press secretary James Brady, who was shot and grievously wounded in a 1981 attempt on President Reagan's life, pleaded with the committee to reject the bill. 'Powerless' "Twenty-five years ago next Thursday, a team of eight law-enforcement agents with the Secret Service ... were powerless to stop a deeply disturbed individual carrying a concealed handgun" from very nearly killing the president, Brady said. "That man shot me, too," said Brady, who has had to use a wheelchair since the shooting. "I implore you to respect the judgment of law enforcement," he said, calling the legislation "reckless public policy." Brady and his wife, who now live in Rehoboth Beach, have crusaded for stricter gun laws through the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. Sarah Brady told the committee that the bill "should be preceded by a thorough analysis" and asked that the legislators establish a task force to study it. "You have to stop and ask yourself, why on earth would anyone need to pack heat in day-care centers ... at ballgames, at the beach. It's totally irresponsible," she said. "Putting more guns on the street, concealed weapons, is something too serious to take in one step," she said. Newport Police Chief Michael Capriglione, president of the Delaware Police Chiefs Council, told the lawmakers that the bill "has been done in a vacuum." "Is the system really broken?" Capriglione asked, adding that Florida, which has a system similar to the one proposed in H.B. 359, has seen gang members with clean criminal records obtaining permits and acting as enforcers for their partners in crime. But Millsboro Republican Rep. John C. Atkins replied that he had "a hard time believing that a gang member ... would be willing to go through a background check, have his fingerprints on record, and then go before a judge" to ask for a permit. Wave of gun violence Wilmington Police Chief Michael Szczerba, whose city has the state's highest violent-crime rate and had a near-record number of shootings in 2004, reiterated his strong opposition to the bill. The wave of gun violence in Wilmington led to the formation of the Hope Commission to explore ways to stem the carnage. The shootings and the group's finding also helped motivate a recent change in policing in Wilmington to move closer to communities. Szczerba said H.B. 359 is not in keeping with the effort to rid Wilmington of gun violence. "This will not improve public safety," Szczerba said. "It's also an issue of officer safety." With more people carrying handguns, he said, officers arriving at a crime scene could find it difficult "to tell the bad guy from the good guy and the bad girl from the good girl." An amendment to H.B. 359 would prohibit concealed-carry holders from taking a firearm into a school, but Dover Police Chief Jeffrey Horvath said that prohibition should be extended to cover all school functions, particularly outdoor athletic events such as football games. Horvath also said the requirement for just one gun-safety course is not enough -- even though that is all that is required under current law. "[Police officers] have to qualify twice a year," Horvath said. "If you're not proficient with a firearm, you shouldn't be carrying." The Rev. Bruce Gillette, co-pastor of Limestone Presbyterian Church, wondered whether his parishioners would carry concealed handguns into his Sunday services. "I've buried people who have been killed by handguns," Gillette said, urging the legislators to "take some time to do some study." But the bill's chief House sponsor, Rep. Deborah Hudson, R-Fairthorne, rejected calls for delaying the bill, saying that the concerns raised would be addressed by releasing it for a House vote. "That makes people run off to rooms and make things happen," she said. The only testimony in favor of the bill was from John J. Thompson, lobbyist for the Delaware State Sportsmen's Association. That group and the affiliated National Rifle Association are pushing H.B. 359. "We are not interested in seeing the wild, wild West take place," said Thompson, who has a concealed-carry permit. "We just don't think that unelected bureaucrats and people in the Attorney General's Office should be making the decision about whether I can protect myself," Thompson said. Hudson said after the hearing that she is willing to address some of the issues raised when the bill comes to the floor. "I'm a compromiser, and they had some very good ideas," she said. Contact J.L. Miller at 678-4271 or jlmiller@delawareonline.com. James Brady called on legislators to respect the judgment of police. Wilmington police Chief Michael Szczerba says the bill "will not improve public safety" and endangers officers. __________________ Former Infantry Captain; 20 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

March 24th, 2006, 06:30 PM	#6
500Mag Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: West Chester, PA Posts: 384	Hopefully there's more than a snowball's chance that they get some reciprocity with PA since I'm a stones throw from the border and do go to the "first state" on a somewhat frequent basis for it's tax free shopping. Note: DE is an open carry state, I've seen it, but I'd rather not get harrassed and likely arrested if I didn't have to. __________________ "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

March 25th, 2006, 04:37 AM	#7
ibex Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NRW, Germany Posts: 277	Funny how the Bradys only say that you should "respect the judgement of law enforcement" when said judgement is conform with their agenda. Many LEOs know they can't protect everyone all the time and recommend CCW to worried citizens. This kind of judgement from law enforcement can and should be ignored, of course. Yeah. Right. __________________ "So this is how liberty dies. With thunderous applause." - Senator Padmé Amidala, "Revenge of the Sith"

March 25th, 2006, 04:31 PM	#8
srfl Senior Moderator Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: FL Posts: 6,270	I hope this passes in DE! Having been stationed at Dover AFB, I would have loved to have seen this happen back then....well, now's the chance. ....to my fellow LEO's that support killing this piece of legislation....FOR SHAME!!! __________________ USAF: Loving Our Obscene Amenities Since 1947

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