You can have my guns when you pry them from my cold, dead hands...or not. - Page 17

OPFOR · September 27th, 2008, 02:32 PM

Ah, yes, you are correct! I read that as simply $.01 per $1... :)

mikeMAGNUM · September 27th, 2008, 06:05 PM

Hello All,

Given the current state of the Economy and the fact that my

guns and ammo collection is my LARGEST and best hedge

against Inflation within my Investment portfolio I feel having

it confiscated would cause the same response as them

demanding my Gold and Silver.

Safety First....Keep your groups tight,

mM

LongRider · September 28th, 2008, 12:51 AM

My grandfather refused to surrender his guns. The national guard shot him 18 times. His family was interred in camps. Where his sister died from lack of nutrition and medical care

Sumner Washington 1942

LongRider · September 28th, 2008, 02:08 AM

To answer the question and consider solutions What is the circumstances surrounding the gun grab. A local event like Katrina? Or a complete economic social collapse. A scenario BTW I think we are currently skirting, so not so far out . What do you think will happen if we hit another depression? What is the consequences of gun grab

Short term
A) They leave with your gun
B) Having your home searched
C) Having your home destroyed in a search
D) being beaten on site anything from a black eye to maimed
E) Being arrested on site
F) Being shot or killed on sight

Long Term
A) Having them taken and returned after some time and expense
B) Having them taken and never returned
C) Being rendered defenseless, being robbed your family raped and killed
D) Becoming subjects of an oppressive government a local tyrant or reformation of our government

I do not see one of them that warrants my going down in a blaze of glory. Rather I think my response needs to be in tune with what is going on. I believe we should be prepared. I have long been an advocate of off site caches of supplies. Long term stores of non perishable items not limited to food and medical supplies. Ideally several along possible escape routes.
My primary problem is the fact, that all my best weapons are on site along with most of my ammo and obviously accessible. If I am going to use them in the more likely scenarios like a home invasion, SD or in the case of a some kind of disaster. My weapons to need to be assessable to be of any use. That is contrary to effectively stashing them.
Anyone who thinks that they can just hide a couple of guns in the closet or under the floor boards to keep them safe from a gun grab has never seen the aftermath of a DEA or ATF raid. For all practical purposes your home could end up leveled if they do not find what they are looking for. So if you are going to stash weapons on site hide them well. An on site accessible gun ammo stash seems like a good idea. One that is accessible but not likely to be found. Where I can take what I normally have in my home and hide in the event of some kind of disaster. Keeping only the ones I need at that moment and any guns I am will to sacrifice to appease any gun grab. So I should have enough left to defend my family if need be. Remember that any gun bought from any retail outlet can be traced to you and is probably on some list some where. They may or may not have that list. If those are not surrendered I'd expect my home to be searched. So having some sacrificial guns may be a good idea maybe even some they can "find" stuck in the closet. At least for me my responce to the initial gun grab will be to surrender some guns and keep those I can.

Like OPFOR and others I will not engage legitimate law enforcement and military over a local temporary situation even if they are acting outside of their authority and the law. I can deal their screw up later. On my terms not when I am outnumbered and out gunned.

If it goes beyond that and there is a focused threat to disarm the population armed resistance becomes an option. That whole idea is horrifying to me. The only rational I have is anyone following those orders is violating the oaths they swore to uphold. They have made a choice to become enemies of the American people. IMO they are no longer American citizens but rather members of an invading force committed to the overthrow of a legitimate government from within. I may be an alarmist but we are skirting a second great depression at a time when we have openly hostile forces throughout the worlds who will take advantage of any internal strife to bring about the fall of this nation. It is not hard for me to see how our reactionary government will respond to a depression with masses of people without the personal moral restraints our citizens had during the first depression. I think I am saying I will never ever be a part of armed insurrection against the United States Of America. I will however stand up and protect defend and serve in whatever capacity I am able to defend our Constitution even if it is against those who are in power and or in uniform. That will be a brutal ugly time unseen since the civil war but it is my belief that armed citizens defending the liberty and freedom of their homeland is more than a match for any standing army regardless of how well that army is armed. It is a time I hope I never see yet it is one that I think we are on the brink of today as we speak. Hope I am wrong but no matter what I will not be gunned down on my porch or interred in a camp

cdwolf · September 28th, 2008, 09:00 PM

Good post Longrider!

LongRider · September 29th, 2008, 12:45 AM

Thanks CD, vast topic

Puppy · September 29th, 2008, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerbouchard

Looking at the Katrina nightmare and some of the other threads, it seems a popular statement is 'They can have my guns when they pry them from my cold, dead hands'. While I certainly feel strongly about the issue, but I don't know if I feel that strongly about it.

In New Orleans, what they did was certainly unconstitutional, and while I would be very opposed to relinquishing any of my weapons, I am not sure how I could resist or even if I would. I imagine the officers were not open to a discussion on ConLaw, and I have had on occasion the unfortunate circumstance where an on site LEO and me have had disagreements about what the law clearly said. In that circumstance, I went along with the LEO, with Yes, sir's and No, sirs, and we sorted it out later, and it worked out just fine. This situation doesn't seem to be one where you can agree to disagree and work it out later, because the fact of the matter is you either disarm yourself in a dangerous situation, or you keep your arms and put yourself in a more dangerous situation where you are now effectively resisting LE while they are in the commission of their duties.

For instance, in TX, even if it is blatantly an unlawful search ,seizure, or arrest, you cannot resist the search and seizure, as that would be illegal. The only time you could resist is if the officer used unprovoked force that was greater than necessary to carry out that search, seizure or arrest.

So, I guess my point/question is, there really isn't anything I can think of to stop somebody from unlawfully confiscating any or all of my weapons. I understand after the N.O. fiasco, most LE probably recieved more training, but it's worrisome to know that even in hindsight, I don't have any better answers about what to do, than what they were forced to do when it happened.

You probably forgot that gun you sold just last week when they ask for your guns.

mlr1m · October 1st, 2008, 06:11 PM

My friends used to jokingly say that they were going to make a call to the BATF about all the firepower I have stashed on my property if they are ever banned. I always told them that if I chose to live I would comply with orders.

Then I ask them what they are going to do when the knock is at their door asking to turn in the machine gun I called about. I told them they might want to get one so that they don't get shot for not complying.

Michael

762 · October 1st, 2008, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeMAGNUM

Hello All,

Given the current state of the Economy and the fact that my

guns and ammo collection is my LARGEST and best hedge

against Inflation within my Investment portfolio I feel having

it confiscated would cause the same response as them

demanding my Gold and Silver.

Safety First....Keep your groups tight,

mM

good analogy. i am adding more assets to my portfolio this weekend in the form of a yugoslavian m70ab.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAT40

I have talked to a number of LEO's about this weapon confiscation scenarios. All have said no way would I be going door to door on a gun grab.That would be suicidal, orders or not. Don,t rule out some maybe most are good guys like us!

a nationwide gun grab has the potential of being bloody...physically and politically. only a lunatic would call for such a thing.

cdwolf · October 1st, 2008, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 762

a nationwide gun grab has the potential of being bloody...physically and politically. only a lunatic would call for such a thing.

I agree This is not the U.K. If a nation wide gun confiscation was ordered, that would be the same as declaring a civil war against the American people! I truly believe that at that point 90% of LEO would see this as a time to go be with there family. I suspect the south(along with the rest of the country) would not take kindly to handing over anything to a blue helmet on our soil.

September 27th, 2008, 02:32 PM	#161
OPFOR VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: DC, for the moment Posts: 2,760	Ah, yes, you are correct! I read that as simply $.01 per $1... :) __________________ "It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way."

September 28th, 2008, 12:51 AM	#163
LongRider Distinguished Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Washington Posts: 1,785	My grandfather refused to surrender his guns. The national guard shot him 18 times. His family was interred in camps. Where his sister died from lack of nutrition and medical care Sumner Washington 1942 __________________ Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

September 28th, 2008, 02:08 AM	#164
LongRider Distinguished Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Washington Posts: 1,785	To answer the question and consider solutions What is the circumstances surrounding the gun grab. A local event like Katrina? Or a complete economic social collapse. A scenario BTW I think we are currently skirting, so not so far out . What do you think will happen if we hit another depression? What is the consequences of gun grab Short term A) They leave with your gun B) Having your home searched C) Having your home destroyed in a search D) being beaten on site anything from a black eye to maimed E) Being arrested on site F) Being shot or killed on sight Long Term A) Having them taken and returned after some time and expense B) Having them taken and never returned C) Being rendered defenseless, being robbed your family raped and killed D) Becoming subjects of an oppressive government a local tyrant or reformation of our government I do not see one of them that warrants my going down in a blaze of glory. Rather I think my response needs to be in tune with what is going on. I believe we should be prepared. I have long been an advocate of off site caches of supplies. Long term stores of non perishable items not limited to food and medical supplies. Ideally several along possible escape routes. My primary problem is the fact, that all my best weapons are on site along with most of my ammo and obviously accessible. If I am going to use them in the more likely scenarios like a home invasion, SD or in the case of a some kind of disaster. My weapons to need to be assessable to be of any use. That is contrary to effectively stashing them. Anyone who thinks that they can just hide a couple of guns in the closet or under the floor boards to keep them safe from a gun grab has never seen the aftermath of a DEA or ATF raid. For all practical purposes your home could end up leveled if they do not find what they are looking for. So if you are going to stash weapons on site hide them well. An on site accessible gun ammo stash seems like a good idea. One that is accessible but not likely to be found. Where I can take what I normally have in my home and hide in the event of some kind of disaster. Keeping only the ones I need at that moment and any guns I am will to sacrifice to appease any gun grab. So I should have enough left to defend my family if need be. Remember that any gun bought from any retail outlet can be traced to you and is probably on some list some where. They may or may not have that list. If those are not surrendered I'd expect my home to be searched. So having some sacrificial guns may be a good idea maybe even some they can "find" stuck in the closet. At least for me my responce to the initial gun grab will be to surrender some guns and keep those I can. Like OPFOR and others I will not engage legitimate law enforcement and military over a local temporary situation even if they are acting outside of their authority and the law. I can deal their screw up later. On my terms not when I am outnumbered and out gunned. If it goes beyond that and there is a focused threat to disarm the population armed resistance becomes an option. That whole idea is horrifying to me. The only rational I have is anyone following those orders is violating the oaths they swore to uphold. They have made a choice to become enemies of the American people. IMO they are no longer American citizens but rather members of an invading force committed to the overthrow of a legitimate government from within. I may be an alarmist but we are skirting a second great depression at a time when we have openly hostile forces throughout the worlds who will take advantage of any internal strife to bring about the fall of this nation. It is not hard for me to see how our reactionary government will respond to a depression with masses of people without the personal moral restraints our citizens had during the first depression. I think I am saying I will never ever be a part of armed insurrection against the United States Of America. I will however stand up and protect defend and serve in whatever capacity I am able to defend our Constitution even if it is against those who are in power and or in uniform. That will be a brutal ugly time unseen since the civil war but it is my belief that armed citizens defending the liberty and freedom of their homeland is more than a match for any standing army regardless of how well that army is armed. It is a time I hope I never see yet it is one that I think we are on the brink of today as we speak. Hope I am wrong but no matter what I will not be gunned down on my porch or interred in a camp __________________ Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family Last edited by LongRider; September 28th, 2008 at 04:07 AM.. Reason: edit grammer

September 28th, 2008, 09:00 PM	#165
cdwolf VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: MS Posts: 2,166	Good post Longrider! __________________ GUN CONTROL= I WANT TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE GUN A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

September 29th, 2008, 12:45 AM	#166
LongRider Distinguished Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Washington Posts: 1,785	Thanks CD, vast topic __________________ Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

September 27th, 2008, 06:05 PM	#162
mikeMAGNUM Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 44	Hello All, Given the current state of the Economy and the fact that my guns and ammo collection is my LARGEST and best hedge against Inflation within my Investment portfolio I feel having it confiscated would cause the same response as them demanding my Gold and Silver. Safety First....Keep your groups tight, mM

October 1st, 2008, 06:11 PM	#168
mlr1m Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: okla Posts: 771	My friends used to jokingly say that they were going to make a call to the BATF about all the firepower I have stashed on my property if they are ever banned. I always told them that if I chose to live I would comply with orders. Then I ask them what they are going to do when the knock is at their door asking to turn in the machine gun I called about. I told them they might want to get one so that they don't get shot for not complying. Michael

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