You can have my guns when you pry them from my cold, dead hands...or not. - Page 18

Kerbouchard · October 1st, 2008, 09:02 PM

It would never be an outright gungrab...it would start with ammo serialization, or other back door forms of legislation until they have all but banned firearms...from there, a complete ban is not as far of a stretch.

Europe did not have a gun ban overnight. They regulated it out of existence, and then made the ban...only for some reason the criminals didn't bother to turn theirs in.

762 · October 2nd, 2008, 09:34 AM

Our politicians are not stupid enough (well, maybe the are) to pass a total ban on the spot. Like Kerbouchard mentions, they will start with serialization, ammo bans, etc, etc.

I really feel they WILL try to ban ammo... they will see this as a way around the 2A.

LongRider · October 3rd, 2008, 06:11 AM

It has already started with the so called reasonable gun control laws background checks permits etc that are getting innocent human beings killed and have yet to save a single life or prevent a single crime. Still, people have been programmed to think they are reasonable and needed with no foundation in fact. They are well on their way to brainwashing the public. The general public already believes that guns are unnecessary instruments of fear and tools of evil. Most here are brainwashed into thinking one gun control measure or another is a good idea unwilling to see the fact that they are completely useless, Look how easy it was to get Californians to surrender all of their evil assault rifles and high cap mags. Every single gun control measure and associated misinformation only purpose is take guns away from citizens and has nothing to do with reducing crime. If anyone doubts that find one example of how any gun control measure background check, requiring a concealed weapons permit has ever stopped a crime or saved a life. There are none but people still think they are a good idea and support them, even when they see people die because of them.

SelfDefense · October 3rd, 2008, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongRider

Every single gun control measure and associated misinformation only purpose is take guns away from citizens and has nothing to do with reducing crime. If anyone doubts that find one example of how any gun control measure background check, requiring a concealed weapons permit has ever stopped a crime or saved a life.

Find one example of automobile air bags saving a life. How do you know the person would have died? Get rid of air bags!

I found these two examples easily and they are both from only last month.

Quote:

Wanted man arrested at gun shop
by The Patriot-News
Sunday February 03, 2008, 12:22 PM

A Lebanon man was arrested Thursday after police said the man, who was wanted by the county Sheriff's Office, tried to transfer a firearm into his name.

South Lebanon Twp. police said that during the attempted transaction at Shyda's Gun Shop about 1:30 p.m., workers learned that Rafael Delgado Jr., 41, was wanted by the Lebanon County Sheriff's Office. The workers called police and Delgado was arrested.

It was unclear on what charge Delgado was wanted; however, police charged him with possessing a prohibited offensive weapon

Quote:

Man arrested at shop while picking up gun won in raffle

A background check found the man was wanted for a probation violation in Worcester County, Md.
Lancaster New Era
Published: Sep 04, 2008

A Chester County man ended up in handcuffs when he went to a New Holland store to pick up a shotgun that he reportedly had won in a raffle, police said.

A background check revealed that Eddie O. Murray Jr., 25, of Parkesburg, was wanted by Maryland authorities for* probation violation, New Holland police said.
Murray arrived at The Sportsman Shop, 101 W. Main St., New Holland, on Tuesday afternoon.

"He won a shotgun in a raffle and* was there to pick it up," said New Holland Police Chief John Y. Yost.

But Murray had no chance of* collecting his winnings.

A background check through state police revealed that the Parkesburg man had an outstanding warrant for probation violation in Worcester County, Md., Yost said.
State police immediately notified* New Holland police.
"They said there is a guy up there (Sportsman Shop) with a warrant out of Maryland," said Yost.

New Holland police Officer Mark Willwerth responded to the business at* 4:50 p.m. Tuesday and arrested Murray without incident on a fugitive-from-justice charge

OPFOR · October 3rd, 2008, 10:17 AM

Exactly, SelfD - you can't prove that things didn't happen; that's why gun-control can sound so reasonable to many who don't know any better.

I, obviously, am opposed to basically any infringement on the 2A, but I do not believe that gun control laws have never prevented a single crime. I simply believe that they harm more than they help, and are bad in the aggregate.

SelfDefense · October 3rd, 2008, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OPFOR

Exactly, SelfD - you can't prove that things didn't happen; that's why gun-control can sound so reasonable to many who don't know any better.

I, obviously, am opposed to basically any infringement on the 2A, but I do not believe that gun control laws have never prevented a single crime. I simply believe that they harm more than they help, and are bad in the aggregate.

I have no problem with that line of thinking but background checks pose no hardship to gun buyers. In Arizona, it takes five minutes at most. If you have a CCW there is no background check.

The only persons harmed by a background check are criminals.

mcp1810 · October 4th, 2008, 01:33 AM

Well when they come to get mine they will be sadly disappointed. With the state of the economy I will probably have sold everything except my treasured Davis .32 semi autos.

If I really need cash fast I will just approach some of the uniformed officers at the various gun shows here and offer them a sweet deal.

That is my story and I am sticking to it.

LongRider · October 4th, 2008, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SelfDefense

Find one example of automobile air bags saving a life. How do you know the person would have died? Get rid of air bags!

I found these two examples easily and they are both from only last month.

Neither are examples of how a background check prevented a crime. In both cases a background check led to an arrest on another unrelated crime.
More wanted criminals are found because of a traffic stop than any other way, which is why LEO find traffic stops to be among the most dangerous thing they do. Using those examples to say background checks prevent crime, would be the same as saying that traffic stops prevent crime. By your reasoning police should be able to pull anyone over at anytime for any or no reason. After all no one would be hurt except criminals. At least innocent citizens would not get killed with at will traffic stops and unlike the Right be Bear Arms without INFRINGEMENT, driving is not a right bestowed upon us by the Creator (or nature if you prefer) and enumerated in the Constitution

Quote:

Originally Posted by SelfDefense

The only persons harmed by a background check are criminals.

As I have posted this before so you are well aware of it. Your post reeks of denial. Or worst evidence that your need to be right about your support of feel good anti 2A gun control laws is worth a few lives

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongRider

Rebecca Griego had a Order of Protection against her stalker. She had moved repeatedly changed her phone number refused to answer the phone at work. The police knew she was at risk. Her work security knew she was being stalked and had death threats made against her. She had applied for a Concealed Weapons permit and was told there would be a six to eight week wait. She had gone in to purchase a handgun and told there would be a five day wait until her background check cleared. She was gunned down three days later.

Her story is by no means unusual. I know of more than a few women that had been raped/assaulted waiting for a permit. Others who have been assaulted and/or raped because they were in a gun free zone and so not allowed to carry a gun. Just as it is not uncommon to find stories of business men, shop owners who have applied for gun permits and either due to the delay or out right being denied a permit mostly in states like NY CA and ILL that ended up being robbed assaulted or killed unarmed and defenseless.

Here are a couple of the most obvious examples.

Who knows how many were killed, assaulted and raped because of the gun grab from those left in New Orleans after Katrina. More than a few as dozen reported having to fight off looters. Who knows what happened after their guns were taken away

Watts Riots. During the Watts riots gun shops were over overwhelmed by people wanting to buy guns to protect themselves and their property only to be told there was a 15-day waiting period before they could pick up their firearms. By the time the riot subsided, 34 people had been killed, 1032 injured, billions of dollars of property was damage or destroyed.

Rodney King riot. Once again LA residents learned that due to their gun control laws they would be unable to buy any guns to defend themselves with. Over 50 human beings were killed, and over 4 thousand men women and children were assaulted.

Even excluding the thousands victimized during those events. I know personally at least half a dozen women victimized while waiting to get their gun or for their permits to clear. It safe to assume Nation wide over the past few decades of gun control that it has happened to thousands. Just as it is not uncommon to find other stories of those that have been robbed or killed while waiting to get their guns or for their permits to clear. If anything my statement about the real life cost of gun control is an understatement.

Self Defense may I ask that you consider others and not just Self

OPFOR · October 4th, 2008, 04:38 PM

LongRider, I appreciate your sentiment, but please relate an instant background check to what happened to Ms. Griego (and a link to an actual news article, as there are some "facts" reported here that don't seem to jibe with what I understand the law to be...)

Taxi Driver · October 4th, 2008, 05:43 PM

October 1st, 2008, 09:02 PM	#171
Kerbouchard VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 2,895	It would never be an outright gungrab...it would start with ammo serialization, or other back door forms of legislation until they have all but banned firearms...from there, a complete ban is not as far of a stretch. Europe did not have a gun ban overnight. They regulated it out of existence, and then made the ban...only for some reason the criminals didn't bother to turn theirs in. __________________ There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil. http://miscmusings.townhall.com/ Who is John Galt?

October 2nd, 2008, 09:34 AM	#172
762 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 722	Our politicians are not stupid enough (well, maybe the are) to pass a total ban on the spot. Like Kerbouchard mentions, they will start with serialization, ammo bans, etc, etc. I really feel they WILL try to ban ammo... they will see this as a way around the 2A. __________________ Let's Roll - Todd Beamer MOΛΩN ΛABÉ

October 3rd, 2008, 06:11 AM	#173
LongRider Distinguished Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Washington Posts: 1,785	It has already started with the so called reasonable gun control laws background checks permits etc that are getting innocent human beings killed and have yet to save a single life or prevent a single crime. Still, people have been programmed to think they are reasonable and needed with no foundation in fact. They are well on their way to brainwashing the public. The general public already believes that guns are unnecessary instruments of fear and tools of evil. Most here are brainwashed into thinking one gun control measure or another is a good idea unwilling to see the fact that they are completely useless, Look how easy it was to get Californians to surrender all of their evil assault rifles and high cap mags. Every single gun control measure and associated misinformation only purpose is take guns away from citizens and has nothing to do with reducing crime. If anyone doubts that find one example of how any gun control measure background check, requiring a concealed weapons permit has ever stopped a crime or saved a life. There are none but people still think they are a good idea and support them, even when they see people die because of them. __________________ Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

October 3rd, 2008, 10:17 AM	#175
OPFOR VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: DC, for the moment Posts: 2,760	Exactly, SelfD - you can't prove that things didn't happen; that's why gun-control can sound so reasonable to many who don't know any better. I, obviously, am opposed to basically any infringement on the 2A, but I do not believe that gun control laws have never prevented a single crime. I simply believe that they harm more than they help, and are bad in the aggregate. __________________ "It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way."

October 4th, 2008, 01:33 AM	#177
mcp1810 VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 2,099	Well when they come to get mine they will be sadly disappointed. With the state of the economy I will probably have sold everything except my treasured Davis .32 semi autos. If I really need cash fast I will just approach some of the uniformed officers at the various gun shows here and offer them a sweet deal. That is my story and I am sticking to it. __________________ Waiting on the research and verification.......

October 4th, 2008, 04:38 PM	#179
OPFOR VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: DC, for the moment Posts: 2,760	LongRider, I appreciate your sentiment, but please relate an instant background check to what happened to Ms. Griego (and a link to an actual news article, as there are some "facts" reported here that don't seem to jibe with what I understand the law to be...) __________________ "It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way."

October 4th, 2008, 05:43 PM	#180
Taxi Driver Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: The Big Apple Posts: 33	__________________ Warning: Driver only carries $20 worth of ammunition.

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