ImaShepardRU

I can't imagine it NOT happening again at some point.
And more than likely on a larger scale.

__________________
This is the law;
The purpose of fighting is to win.
There is no possible victory in defense.
The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either.
The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental. - John Steinbeck

ImaShepardRU

I know it's only 'stuff'. BUT, it's MY stuff and I have worked very hard to acquire what I have. If I let it be taken 'lawfully', the insurance company will not be replacing it as it was not 'stolen' and I cannot afford to do it all over again. This leaves me without means to protect myself and my family, let alone at a large loss of personal fortune.
It's a sad state of affairs to face, however, was it any less so, when our forefathers said, "Enough! Not here. Not now!" and gave up everything to start a fight that they had to know they had little chance of winning? One might not be able to have a positive effect on 'gun rights' in the public media at the time, but at some point we have to stand up for our rights.
So......would I give them up? As others have said here; it would depend on the situation at hand. But at some point, all of our rights revolve around giving them up or not.

__________________
This is the law;
The purpose of fighting is to win.
There is no possible victory in defense.
The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either.
The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental. - John Steinbeck

OPFOR

Sounds like it to me...

I got a permit in WA in 1992 or 93 - it was simplicity itself and cost 5 bucks. Again, I don't agree with waiting periods, but I do agree with background checks - these checks have kept guns out of the hands of criminals, and are not resource intensive. I appreciate your "pure" view of things here, but the reality is that criminals are denied at least one way of acquiring guns through this procedure, and it is not intrusive or dangerous to law abiding citizens.

I think your friend's story - as tragic as it is - could have had a different outcome had she gotten her permit before the imminent threat. As we are fond of saying here, "you don't wait until you are in the accident to put on your seat belt."

My deepest sympathy for your loss, and may you never have to go through anything like it again.

__________________
"It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way."

MP45CDE

Wow I like this thread.

Something that really gets me is that we CANNOT exercise our 2A rights without first forking over about $300 for the CCW class and the permit itself, let alone the wait and the cost of the weapon itself. HOW CAN THEY CHARGE US, MONITARILY, TO EXERCISE OUR RIGHTS?!

How about a country where the Government not only doesn't charge you to exercise your God and Constitutionally-given rights, but gives you a concealed carry weapon AND a rifle and shotgun to defend your home!

LongRider

Perhabs I am being unclear. In Washington state when you buy a gun it takes five days for your background check to clear if you do not have a permit. It takes six to eight weeks to get your permit. She could not even get the gun in time to defend her life. But if she had she still would not have been able to carry to defend her life. So even if it was a fifteen minutes to buy the gun she still would not have been able to carry it.

One question I asked in the states with the fifteen minute background check is that with a permit or without? Because we have that. With a permit it takes ten fifteen minutes.

You can not really believe that? Please find me one criminal who decided that they were going to not get a gun because of a background check. Not arrested on other unrelated charges as you did previously. All background checks do is provide criminals one more reason to kick down your door to steal your guns. Reminds me of the to robbers in front of the bank saying oh we can't rob this bank with these AR's they are illegal. Yeah right, if you really believe that I can get you a good deal on Washington Mutual stock. Come on OPFOR I know you are way smarter than that

Don't be ridicules get real. After bailing out their buddies who managed to bankrupt the whole country with their stupidity. Where are they going to get the money?

__________________
Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

MP45CDE

Hey--if they could have given each of us $230,000 instead of doing the 'bail out', they can buy us 3 measily guns to protect ourselves.

OPFOR

I don't understand your reasoning here - what does the criminal "choosing not to buy a gun" have to do with it? The fact is that lots of them try, and lots of them fail. There are many, many cases of people being denied a firearms purchase because they "failed" the background check - Brady claims that 1.6 million sales have been denied for this reason. Even if this is grossly exaggerated, it's still a large number of criminals who couldn't buy guns.

We obviously can't show instances of criminals choosing not to buy a gun for fear of the background check - because they didn't take any measurable action - but we can show up to 1,600,000 instances where a background check kept a gun out of the hands of someone not supposed to have one.

Also, I wasn't the one who pointed out that a number of wanted criminals have actually been arrested because of the BC - this is just icing on the cake.

__________________
"It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way."

SelfDefense

The instant background check is without a permit. There is no check at all if you have a CCW permit.

Yes, concealed weapons permits take longer. It took two weeks for me in Arizona. Of course, Arizona is an open carry state so no permit is required to carry a gun.

LongRider

WE? By we you mean you and the Brady Bunch? Based on the Brady Bunch's stats? It is against forum policy and rules for me to say what I think of anyone who lends the slightest credibility to those low life lying thieving scum sucking maggot fascists. Remember the very people who you support by posting their lies are the very one who advocate taking all guns. That their so called reasonable gun control laws are a compromise until they can. Only a step towards their ultimate goal of banning all guns. That we are having this debate proves their brainwashing is working on those that read their trash. They are very clear that they think anyone with combat experience should not be allowed to have guns in a civilian environment because they have proven a propensity to violence with a proven willingness to kill. That their mental health criteria is aimed at vets with PTSD. Anyone who has ever pulled a trigger on another human being can be diagnosed with PTSD. But even if the lie was true were is the evidence that they did not go elsewhere to buy a gun and commit a crime Or are you along with the Brady Bunch proposing that criminals only use legally purchased guns? Contrary to the FBI who claim that most all crimes are committed with illegally obtained guns. Even with out background checks what criminal buys expensive legal guns to commit crimes with when hot guns cost about one tenth of what they cost in a store?

Not being confused so much as being included. Yes a permit is the more obvious infringement but a back ground check is no less of an infringement, even if it only takes 2 seconds and even if it did work. Which it does not despite the Brady Bunch's claims. If it is true that anyone intent on getting a gun will do so no matter what the law is. Than it is true hat background checks are useless to prevent crime. If that is the case what is their true purpose? The only purpose I can see is to register guns and track how many guns you have. What is the purpose of that.

__________________
Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

BAC

A) Your assumption was correct; this is grossly exaggerated.

B) Almost 10% of those "hands of someone not supposed not have one" are a result of mistakes on the part of the NICS. Calling them "mistakes" is putting it mildly, because it's not like a simple phone call fixes them.

Additionally, yes, the NICS is resource intensive. It is expensive and flawed, and that costs a lot of folks the opportunity to purchase a firearm.

Is a background check an infringement? Strictly speaking, it's not, and only becomes one if used to bar a group of people who otherwise have full rights as Americans from obtaining firearms (that's discrimination). A background check is, however, unconstitutional; there is no provision for a background check system in the US Constitution. Different argument entirely - one active infringing of personal liberties, the other active usurping of [unlawful] authority.


-B