Blue

Just read on the NRA page that Representatives Stearns R-Fl and Rick Boucher D-VA have introduced HR 197 "National Rite to Carry Act of 2009." If a state has CC one would have to abide by their rules. If a state does not, federal regulations would apply. Of course certain criteria would have to be met in addition to a state issued permit to attain the Federal CC permit.

Senator John Thune R-SD is going to introduce a companion bill in the Senate. Apperantly he has done this since 1995.

Fire up the emails to your Rrepresentatives, Obama and his crew will fight it but the battle is worth it.

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tinkerinWstuff

still not sure how I feel about this and lean toward it being a states rights issue. We wouldn't want the Fed to inact a law banning CC nationwide so why should we support them being able to tell the states they have to allow something? Even if I would rather it was easier, I don't know if I agree with the Fed forcing these issues on states.

Further, since each state has different minimum requirements for license and renewals, it would appear that the Fed would likely have to set their own minimum standard. You can bet that standard would then be in line with the most difficult state to obtain a CCW like NY or California (or maybe IL and WI)

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deadeye72

I agree with the states right argument, but the feds would be telling the states they have to comply with the U.S. Constitution. I can somewhat agree with both sides.

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Blue

I started this thread because I too am torn between the two and was interested in my brethrens opinions. I do not think either bills stand a snowballs chance, but it is interesting.

I still feel that it is the states rights, but it also puts some pressure on the more opressive states.

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SelfDefense

This is an easy issue if we go back to the Constitution.

Article IV Section 2:

The citizens of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states.

This means that if a citizen complies with another state's requirements then they cannot be prohibited from the same privileges of the citizens of that state.

That is, no state can prohibit acquiring a concealed carry permit simply because you live in a different state. Or prohibiting an out of state resident from collecting clams.

torgo1968

You know those crazy gun control bills that get introduced every single year and never get out of committee? This is the same thing in reverse. Note that Blue pointed out that the guy has introduced this bill every year since 1995. If it got nowhere during eight years under a Republican president and a more favorable Congress, take a guess where it's going now. I'm not saying you shouldn't write your congressman and such, just understand that you'll sooner see Bin Laden elected mayor of New York City than this bill seeing the light of day.

lacrosse50

This is something that should be left at the state level. The Federal level of government has it's hands in enough already, and they don't need to dabble in this anymore than they already have.

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user

Unfortunately, I have to agree. I hate to have to box up my guns before the brief trip through Maryland on my way from Virginia to West Virginia, and I wish there were a way around it. But I see this issue as exactly the same as the one in HR 45: Since the Constitution reserves the police power and governance of health, education, safety and welfare to the states, the U.S. has no authority to regulate ownership, possession or use of firearms - only transactions that affect interstate commerce. I suppose one might argue that individuals traveling from one state to another, as well as through intervening states constitutes "interstate commerce" and therefore subject to federal regulation.

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bandit383

Hummm...does it come with a CC badge :)))

Really...sounds good and will be interesting to see who votes for and against...or better stated, pro and anti...politics of the times to ferret out the enemies.

Rick

archer51

I'd just as soon the Fed's keep out of it. Of course, even if it made it through congress I doubt it would be signed into law.

jonesy_26

This is a good point, once the feds have it, forget easy. They would never give control back to the states. Aside from the de-facto registration, MI's carry laws are quite agreeable. I would hate to have to conform to a stricter standard, or not qualify all of a sudden.

Janq

All we need is an interstate national CCW compact.
The exact same thing as how motor vehicle operators licenses work, which is not Federalized either.

- Janq

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DOGOFWAR01

No Way on National Carry - States Rights Issue

No Way do we want to involve the fed's in the carry issue be it conceal or open or both. fed's screw up everything the fed's touch.

Each state decide their on own rules prefer IAW with Second Amendment.

Do not like your state rules then you and yours change your state rules and leave the rest of us out of your problems, we will do the same.

BAC

Almost posted exactly this. Well said, SD.


-B

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ronwill

Attempted several times in the past, it has always failed. Personally, I'm for the bill. It's not the feds taking over CCW, it's forcing states to accept them the same way as a drivers license or marriage license. For those who think it should be a states issue consider this. Most other states decide not to recognize your drivers license, if you want to drive there you must obtain one of theirs. By the way, if you are not a resident you can't get a license. Just an example, but plausible under the states issue argument.

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Maverickx50

I';d like to see it go like the Fed child support laws. that require states to honor the rules/decisions set forth in the state of residence the person is from. Not much chance of that but it's my dream.

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Hopyard

States rights should be a long dead issue. We are in fact one nation, and so whatever impediments to being one nation there might be, need to be modified. We are using a Federal system which made sense 225 years ago, but which makes somewhat less sense today. Something is going to have to give one way or the other.

Since 2A is in the BOR, .... well "here we go again." Enough.

tinkerinWstuff

I think I have to dissagree. The problem is that we got too far away from State's rights. If you abolish state governements, then we here in CO, WY, and MT get shafted with laws and tax structures that have turned CA and WA into a sesspool in my opinion. Some of you should drive thru MT where you can go 10 minutes on the freeway and never see a house, barn, or shed. There are different cultures when you go across this wide country and people should be able to govern at a more local level. Problem happens when you have people like Pelosi try to ram her idiot ideas that have bankrupted her state on the rest of us. People who keep electing her need to keep her.

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"Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

Who is John Galt?

bandit383

Totally agree...the idea of state rights is a form of checks and balances with the Feds. One shoe not fit all...at least when it comes to state demographics.

Rick

socal2310

Actually, the problem with California's concealed carry permits (I can't speak to the other states) is the capricious manner in which they are issued, not the expense and difficulty in meeting the requirements. Because local chiefs and sheriffs have discretion in issuing permits, it gives rise to a situation in which most rural counties, particularly in the northern part of the state, are effectively "shall issue" while most urban areas won't issue to normal citizens. On the plus side, a concealed carry permit is valid throughout the state, although additional restrictions may be placed on the permit by the issuing official.

The requirements for a concealed carry permit in as administered in Ventura County California are as follows:

1.) Be of good moral character (as verified by passing an interview and a thorough background investigation).
2.) Show good cause why a permit should be issued.
3.) Complete an approved firearm safety course.
4.) Live in or work primarily in the issuing county (permits for those who work but do not live in the issuing county are only good for ninety days and it regularly takes longer than that to issue a permit).

The biggest problem is that "good cause" is subject only to the opinion of the issuing authority. There is no objective standard by which to determine whether any particular reason constitutes "good cause".

Ryan

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