Just in - court blocks rule allowing CCW in National Parks

tinkerinWstuff · March 19th, 2009, 08:15 PM

Court blocks rule allowing guns in national parks - Crime & courts- msnbc.com

Quote:

Associated Press
updated 33 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - A federal judge has blocked a federal rule allowing people to carry concealed, loaded guns in national parks and wildlife refuges.

A decision issued Thursday by U.S. District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly overturns a rule issued in the waning days of the Bush administration.

The rule took effect Jan. 11 and allowed visitors to carry a loaded gun into a park or wildlife refuge as long as the person has a permit for a concealed weapon and the state where the park or refuge is located allows concealed firearms. Previously, guns in parks had been severely restricted.

The Obama administration had said it was reviewing the Bush rule but had defended it in court.

I guess if I want to see the park, I better hurry and get up to Rocky Mtn NP before this trickles down.

elkhunter · March 19th, 2009, 08:31 PM

Well, ...... That stinks!
I just hope the case can make it to SCOUS before Obama can re-stack the court.

tinkerinWstuff · March 19th, 2009, 08:33 PM

and from the Washington Post:

Judge Blocks Bush Rule Allowing Concealed Weapons in National Parks - washingtonpost.com

Quote:

Judge Blocks Bush Rule Allowing Concealed Weapons in National Parks

By Del Quentin Wilber
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, March 19, 2009; 5:35 PM

A federal judge today blocked a last-minute rule enacted by President Bush allowing visitors to national parks to carry concealed weapons.

U.S. District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly issued a preliminary injunction in a lawsuit brought by gun-control advocates and environmental groups. The Justice Department had sought to block the injunction against the controversial rule.

The three groups that brought the suit -- the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, the National Parks Conservation Association and the Coalition of National Park Service Retires -- argued the Bush Administration violated several laws in issuing the rule.

In her ruling, Kollar-Kotelly agreed that the government's process had been "astoundingly flawed."

The regulation took effect Jan. 9 and allowed visitors to carry loaded concealed guns into national parks and wildlife refuges. In the past, they had been allowed in such areas only if they were unloaded, stored or dismantled.

tinkerinWstuff · March 19th, 2009, 08:36 PM

Information on the Clinton appointed Judge here:

Colleen Kollar-Kotelly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

More infomation on the Judge if you are so inclined:

https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/Opinions.pl?2008

Interesting that the site has a secure address but I found it thru google and you can get around without any kind of login. Put the judges name in the search field and you will find all rulings she's made in '08. Change the year in the address bar and you can review previous years.

retsupt99 · March 19th, 2009, 08:45 PM

Is the frog still sitting in the 'warming' water?

Shadow662 · March 19th, 2009, 08:45 PM

I'm sure this will be appealed 20 times over. So when the Department of the Interior removes this U.S. Department of the Interior - News Release - Interior Announces Final Firearms Policy Update from their website then we will know for sure whats happened. Until then I live in MI with lots of state parks

sgtD · March 19th, 2009, 08:49 PM

I thought due process was to be used before denial of rights, not reinstatement of them.

archer51 · March 19th, 2009, 08:57 PM

I don't like the ruling either. However to blame the court ruling on Obama is ridiculous. The law suits were filed before he took office by the Brady bunch and others. If McCain had won the election and the judge ruled against it would you be blaming McCain? Blame the man for what he does, not for everything that happens. BTW, I did not vote for him and I don't agree with his views, but we have to be realistic, he didn't file the suit.

Sejune · March 19th, 2009, 09:06 PM

This sucks, but is not unexpected. We'll just have to sit back and wait and see what happens with the rounds of appeals...

f8lranger4x4 · March 19th, 2009, 09:09 PM

So if I read this right we can no longer carry in National parks. What happened to the NRA

belltoller · March 19th, 2009, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archer51

I don't like the ruling either. However to blame the court ruling on Obama is ridiculous. The law suits were filed before he took office by the Brady bunch and others. If McCain had won the election and the judge ruled against it would you be blaming McCain? Blame the man for what he does, not for everything that happens. BTW, I did not vote for him and I don't agree with his views, but we have to be realistic, he didn't file the suit.

Right, but who "defended" it? If an entity wants to get rid of guns, the best way to do it is to position yourself as the defender and just do a lousy job. Regardless, it should be noted that there are a lot of wackjob judges at the district level. Who appointed the judge in this case?

tinkerinWstuff · March 19th, 2009, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f8lranger4x4

So if I read this right we can no longer carry in National parks. What happened to the NRA

It's going to take some time for the NRA to react, the ruling just came down today. Lawyers will have to look at the judges ruling and I'm sure it will take some time to put together an appeal.

She may have issued an injunction, but since the rule has already taken affect, it will take some time to 'unaffect' it. And hopefully by that time, there will be another ruling that will step on HER ruling

tinkerinWstuff · March 19th, 2009, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by belltoller

Regardless, it should be noted that there are a lot of wackjob judges at the district level. Who appointed the judge in this case?

I don't know how she was assigned to the case, but you will see in one of my earlier posts that she was appointed by Clinton. You can also find in my earlier posts how to read for yourself if she's a 'wackjob judge' or not.

belltoller · March 19th, 2009, 09:16 PM

Okay, she's a Clinton appointed judge...but was also appointed by C.J. Rehnquist to head the FISC. A quick review of her records shows she is a liberal, but not a wackjob.

Ragin Cajun · March 19th, 2009, 09:17 PM

1 step forward, 2 steps back. It is a shame how a few people with special interest can impose on everyone elses rights. Probably the ones that piss me off the most are the rangers who work in the parks. They are government employees and work for the people of this country. They have no business trying to impose on others rights. If they don't like or "feel safe" doing their job, they are free to find another job. The rest of the special interest doesn't surprise me.

nkanofolives · March 19th, 2009, 10:11 PM

From the end of the article:

Quote:

A group representing park rangers, retirees and conservation organizations protested the Bush rule change, complaining that it could lead to confusion and increased danger for visitors, rangers and other law enforcement agencies.

WAIT, WAIT, WAIT...WAIT A MINUTE!!!!!!!! I thought that ignorance of the law was not an excuse in court...and that mentality was a two way street...both of civilians and law enforcement (in this case, park rangers).

WOW!!! Way to go folks!

be44321 · March 19th, 2009, 10:26 PM

Another case of one judge overriding the will of the people. They do it with guns, abortion, gay marriage, etc. I believe in checks and balances, but the judicial branch is OUT OF CONTROL and has been for years.

64zebra · March 19th, 2009, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archer51

I don't like the ruling either. However to blame the court ruling on Obama is ridiculous. The law suits were filed before he took office by the Brady bunch and others. If McCain had won the election and the judge ruled against it would you be blaming McCain? Blame the man for what he does, not for everything that happens. BTW, I did not vote for him and I don't agree with his views, but we have to be realistic, he didn't file the suit.

true, everything you said here is true

...BUT....

she is a federal judge......I'd bet my next months wages that somebody from the administration/DOJ/somebody had some contact with her (outside the courtroom) concerning this case
......perhaps she's getting primed for an appointment to the next higher court......

Obama/administration in public: "we are defending your gun rights"

Obama/administration behind the scenes: "help us out here, we need to restrict the 2A rights of the people here"

AllAmerican · March 19th, 2009, 10:48 PM

I believe it but want to say "unbelieveable"

Grrrrr. Tactical Impact is on. Ill weigh in later.

SelfDefense · March 19th, 2009, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by be44321

Another case of one judge overriding the will of the people. They do it with guns, abortion, gay marriage, etc. I believe in checks and balances, but the judicial branch is OUT OF CONTROL and has been for years.

Exactly correct. I am still amazed that so many think the Judicial branch of government trumps the other two. That is nonsense. The Judicial branch was designed to be the weakest branch of government, as it should be.

It is interesting that many who espouse your view have no problem with judicial activism, thwarting the will of the public, when it comes to state gun control. Then, we hear support of court cases and hope against hope in an effort to overturn the will of the people. Double standard?

March 19th, 2009, 08:31 PM	#2
elkhunter Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 540	Well, ...... That stinks! I just hope the case can make it to SCOUS before Obama can re-stack the court. __________________ It’s so much easier now days, to "Love and honor" my wife, when she is armed, and shoots a better group than I do. (Till death do us part, eh?) "The original point & click device was a Smith & Wesson" -Unknown

March 19th, 2009, 08:36 PM	#4
tinkerinWstuff Distinguished Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Colorado Front Range Posts: 1,211	Information on the Clinton appointed Judge here: Colleen Kollar-Kotelly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia More infomation on the Judge if you are so inclined: https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/Opinions.pl?2008 Interesting that the site has a secure address but I found it thru google and you can get around without any kind of login. Put the judges name in the search field and you will find all rulings she's made in '08. Change the year in the address bar and you can review previous years. __________________ "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun." Who is John Galt?

March 19th, 2009, 08:45 PM	#5
retsupt99 VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Central Florida Posts: 24,663	Is the frog still sitting in the 'warming' water? __________________ "That I cannot do." "Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks." *********************************** NRA Life Member

March 19th, 2009, 08:49 PM	#7
sgtD VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Kansas Posts: 2,218	I thought due process was to be used before denial of rights, not reinstatement of them. __________________ When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

March 19th, 2009, 09:06 PM	#9
Sejune Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Spartanburg, SC Posts: 262	This sucks, but is not unexpected. We'll just have to sit back and wait and see what happens with the rounds of appeals... __________________ Sejune

March 19th, 2009, 08:45 PM	#6
Shadow662 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 62	I'm sure this will be appealed 20 times over. So when the Department of the Interior removes this U.S. Department of the Interior - News Release - Interior Announces Final Firearms Policy Update from their website then we will know for sure whats happened. Until then I live in MI with lots of state parks

March 19th, 2009, 08:57 PM	#8
archer51 VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: VA Posts: 6,914	I don't like the ruling either. However to blame the court ruling on Obama is ridiculous. The law suits were filed before he took office by the Brady bunch and others. If McCain had won the election and the judge ruled against it would you be blaming McCain? Blame the man for what he does, not for everything that happens. BTW, I did not vote for him and I don't agree with his views, but we have to be realistic, he didn't file the suit.

March 19th, 2009, 09:09 PM	#10
f8lranger4x4 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: virginia Posts: 894	So if I read this right we can no longer carry in National parks. What happened to the NRA

March 19th, 2009, 09:16 PM	#14
belltoller Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Spring Lake, NC Posts: 46	Okay, she's a Clinton appointed judge...but was also appointed by C.J. Rehnquist to head the FISC. A quick review of her records shows she is a liberal, but not a wackjob. __________________ HK .45C HK P2000SK 9mm LEM Any questions?

March 19th, 2009, 09:17 PM	#15
Ragin Cajun Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 688	1 step forward, 2 steps back. It is a shame how a few people with special interest can impose on everyone elses rights. Probably the ones that piss me off the most are the rangers who work in the parks. They are government employees and work for the people of this country. They have no business trying to impose on others rights. If they don't like or "feel safe" doing their job, they are free to find another job. The rest of the special interest doesn't surprise me.

March 19th, 2009, 10:26 PM	#17
be44321 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Seattle Posts: 133	Another case of one judge overriding the will of the people. They do it with guns, abortion, gay marriage, etc. I believe in checks and balances, but the judicial branch is OUT OF CONTROL and has been for years.

March 19th, 2009, 10:48 PM	#19
AllAmerican VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Chesterfield, Kakalaki del Sur Posts: 2,401	I believe it but want to say "unbelieveable" Grrrrr. Tactical Impact is on. Ill weigh in later. __________________ My Music: www.reverbnation.com/dickiefredericks New tunes added. "The Double Tap Center Mass Boogie. Learn it, know it, love it, shoot it. Good guys should live, bad guys not so much. " - Ted Nugent 09

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