Gun Control: What is the Agenda - Page 3

Hopyard · June 30th, 2009, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natticarry

This is something that I have always wondered. What if the President who ever it is and the attorney general appointed by the President simply decided to take guns away no matter what the supreme court says. Do you think there would really be enough people to hold him to account. The legislature could always move to impeach him but what is to make him comply. It is a similar scenario Honduras is facing. I have no doubt the world would condemn any actions by our military to arrest him and I am not sure there would be enough organization to even do it. For those who say this could never happen here there are plenty of examples where people thought the same about their country including pre-WWII Germany, and for a more recent example Hugo Chavez repealing the term limits so he can stay in power. All it takes is someone charismatic and ruthless enough to do it.

It could happen, but typically it is not a sitting president who seizes power but an unruly military. There is no way to predict what might happen in the scenario you gave because there is no way to know how the military and the police departments would react.

I think we have come close, once for sure, and maybe twice.

CharlieP · July 3rd, 2009, 04:32 PM

The gun control issue has many different facets. The major ones seem to be:

1) Some folks are frightened by weapons - neurotic.

2) Many more folks simply are ignorant of firearms - they have never fired one or owned one. They take the position that they don't "need" a gun and will never have one. Since they do not have a gun - no one should have one.

3) Some folks favor gun control because it fits their "self-image". these people consider themselves to be liberal and tolerant - but more likely are intolerant and narrow-minded.

4) Some folks favor gun control because it fits with their political alliances - i.e., I will support gun control if you support my cause or special interest. Most of these are Democrats - but some may be independents with a favorite issue that is supported by Democrats.

5) Some folks live in a world that exists only in their own minds. This is a world where it is possible to eliminate all weapons and associated aggression. The place to start is gun control. These people are dangerous.

6) Some politicians and political advocates support gun control because they see armed citizens as a threat to their agenda. Did you ever notice that politicians who favor a more powerful central goverment always promote gun control. Is this a coincidence?

So what can we gun owners do? On number 6 you can support and vote for politicians who favor freedom not government. Numbers 1, 3, 4, and 5 are lost causes. On number 2, you can take a gun-ignorant (but open-minded) friend to the range and let him/her take a few shots - preferably starting with the .22 revolver - not the .357 magnum snub. As we all know - guns are not scary - guns are fun. It even rhymes.

But bitchin' about it will not get us anywhere.

edr9x23super · July 3rd, 2009, 05:07 PM

The historical perspective on the Sullivan law is pretty much spot on, add in the fact that they also wanted to be able to extort the rent from captive tenants and you have the perfect recipe for a criminal enterprise.

No matter what anyone says, you can trace the history of gun control, and it always ends up being touted and supported by some criminal enterprise, be it a government, or in the case of Big Jim Sullivan, a crime boss masquerading as a public servant.

Amazing how the more we look at this issue, the more we find our adversaries are pretty much the same......

LongRider · July 5th, 2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PointnClick

A .38 snubbie at least gives her a chance...

What amazes me is how pervasive the anti self defense fanatics propaganda is. That on a pro 2A forum folks would come right out and support the complete ban on guns making the asinine assertion that the world would be a better place without guns, is insane. That a pro 2A citizen believes that is true is beyond my comprehension and does not make any sense to me at all. That kind of thinking is what I would expect from a Brady Bunch anti self defense fanatic.

45XDCCW · July 9th, 2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farronwolf

Sure they are, and I bet many here would be willing to donate the bullet.

+1

gwhall57 · July 10th, 2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natticarry

This is something that I have always wondered. What if the President who ever it is and the attorney general appointed by the President simply decided to take guns away no matter what the supreme court says. Do you think there would really be enough people to hold him to account.

Yes, I think that the Pro 2 A folks would rally to the cause. I think there are too many who would not submit to that kind of tyranny.

mlr1m · July 10th, 2009, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwhall57

Yes, I think that the Pro 2 A folks would rally to the cause. I think there are too many who would not submit to that kind of tyranny.

Most would submit. After submitting some would try to vote the politicians out of office. Others would go to court. I believe that neither one of these actions would work. Once taken a right is seldom fully restored.

Michael

zacii · July 11th, 2009, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlr1m

Most would submit. After submitting some would try to vote the politicians out of office. Others would go to court. I believe that neither one of these actions would work. Once taken a right is seldom fully restored.

Michael

agreed

agentmel · July 11th, 2009, 11:41 PM

I think its reasonable to assume that any individual could have basically 2 reasons for wanting more gun control:

1. Control Itself - For the reason that it is easier to collect taxes from an unarmed rather than armed man and that the unarmed cannot resist the armed.
2. Fear and/or Naivete - Guns are bad/dangerous/etc., no one should have them, so making them illegal will help the "problem".

Those in group 1 (wolves aka: politicians) are more than happy for those in group 2 (sheep)to advocate for group 1's cause without realizing it. If our "representatives" are able to hide behind the "will of the people" their naked aggression now has the Emperor's Clothes to put on.

Mel

Thanis · July 15th, 2009, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hopyard

Sullivan laws and similar. I really think the folks who push these don't have hidden agendas. They just don't see the other side, the usefulness of a gun for self-defense, the usefulness of a gun for sporting purposes, or the usefulness of gun ownership as a hobby.

Fear is often an irrational emotion, and the anti- gun ownership/gun rights folks are driven by an irrational emotion--the fear that guns cause gun violence.

Now, sadly, too many bad things happen when BGs get their hands on guns, but BGs will get them no matter what--or use knives, or clubs, or nails, or whatever they can get their hands on. That's the part the other side just is not able to comprehend.

+1

There are a % that do have a motive beyond the gun laws, but the same is true concerning a % who speak pro-gun.

July 3rd, 2009, 04:32 PM	#22
CharlieP Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marietta, GA Posts: 129	Its not that simple ... The gun control issue has many different facets. The major ones seem to be: 1) Some folks are frightened by weapons - neurotic. 2) Many more folks simply are ignorant of firearms - they have never fired one or owned one. They take the position that they don't "need" a gun and will never have one. Since they do not have a gun - no one should have one. 3) Some folks favor gun control because it fits their "self-image". these people consider themselves to be liberal and tolerant - but more likely are intolerant and narrow-minded. 4) Some folks favor gun control because it fits with their political alliances - i.e., I will support gun control if you support my cause or special interest. Most of these are Democrats - but some may be independents with a favorite issue that is supported by Democrats. 5) Some folks live in a world that exists only in their own minds. This is a world where it is possible to eliminate all weapons and associated aggression. The place to start is gun control. These people are dangerous. 6) Some politicians and political advocates support gun control because they see armed citizens as a threat to their agenda. Did you ever notice that politicians who favor a more powerful central goverment always promote gun control. Is this a coincidence? So what can we gun owners do? On number 6 you can support and vote for politicians who favor freedom not government. Numbers 1, 3, 4, and 5 are lost causes. On number 2, you can take a gun-ignorant (but open-minded) friend to the range and let him/her take a few shots - preferably starting with the .22 revolver - not the .357 magnum snub. As we all know - guns are not scary - guns are fun. It even rhymes. But bitchin' about it will not get us anywhere.

July 3rd, 2009, 05:07 PM	#23
edr9x23super Distinguished Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 1,733	The historical perspective on the Sullivan law is pretty much spot on, add in the fact that they also wanted to be able to extort the rent from captive tenants and you have the perfect recipe for a criminal enterprise. No matter what anyone says, you can trace the history of gun control, and it always ends up being touted and supported by some criminal enterprise, be it a government, or in the case of Big Jim Sullivan, a crime boss masquerading as a public servant. Amazing how the more we look at this issue, the more we find our adversaries are pretty much the same...... __________________ "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

July 11th, 2009, 11:41 PM	#29
agentmel Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: FL Posts: 474	I think its reasonable to assume that any individual could have basically 2 reasons for wanting more gun control: 1. Control Itself - For the reason that it is easier to collect taxes from an unarmed rather than armed man and that the unarmed cannot resist the armed. 2. Fear and/or Naivete - Guns are bad/dangerous/etc., no one should have them, so making them illegal will help the "problem". Those in group 1 (wolves aka: politicians) are more than happy for those in group 2 (sheep)to advocate for group 1's cause without realizing it. If our "representatives" are able to hide behind the "will of the people" their naked aggression now has the Emperor's Clothes to put on. Mel __________________ The Ethics of Liberty LewRockwell.com The Survival Podcast How long have we watered the Tree of Deceit with the blood of patriots?

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