obxned

'Fighting crime' sitting on your butt in an air conditioned place of business is a whole lot nicer than actually doing something in the heat and dust along the border.

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http://www.obxammo.com/

There is only one gun law in this country, the 2nd Amendment. All else is bureaucratic nonsense that I choose to comply with or not at my discretion.

When governments make laws, they must consider the unintended consequences.

natticarry

As has been said by other. If we sent those ATF agents to the border instead of searching houses you will be able to catch a whole lot more people and smuggled weapons. Or if they instead spent some time investigating officials with questionable records on enforcing illegal immigration and smuggling laws. In the scheme of things they are not catching anything significant. Wow they caught a cop who possibly sold a whole 4 guns and some lady who sold 3 handguns. Compared to the thousands the cartels have this is virtually nothing. The other issue I have is that a majority of the firearms the cartels have are supposedly from the US, but they are all automatic weapons. Do you really think people are getting class 3 licenses, buying pre-ban automatic weapons and selling them at black market prices to cartels? I would venture to guess the weapons that are from the united states were sold by our government to the Mexican government and some how they ended up in the hands of the cartels. I know this seems far fetched considering the stellar reputation of Mexican Officials.

gimpy

This is the first step--a foot in the door if you will. If they get away with this "small" intrusion then the second foot will be inserted. By taking only small bites at a time they expect that the masses will not realize how their rights are being usurped. There are better ways of controlling what flows across the border, but that has not been the real objective from the beginning. So, don't underestimate Mr. Obama. He has demonstrated throughout his entire political career just how he feels about the 2nd Amendment.

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"Society never advances. It recedes as fast on one side as it gains on the other. It undergoes continual change; but this change is not [an improvement]. For everything that is given, something is taken."
Ralph Waldo Emerson

NativH

Yeah I saw this article and figured no big surprise here. We knew this was going to happen and they will most certainly expand the practice based on them being successful, or not being successful. This is one of those invasion of our liberties where there is no right reason to do it so they will make up, and the mainstream media will portray, that this as the only way to stop a problem that really isn't ours in the first place. Just be glad guys that most of you don't live in Houston. We have been laughing at media showing AR's wth grenade launchers on TV every night saying that you can get these at Carters Country in Houston. My wife and I aren't laughing quite so loudly now figuring that my AR-10 and 3,000 rounds will be right up their alley some day. We've already had that husband/wife discussion of what we will do when that day comes and surprisingly, she is more radical than I am. Good for her.

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SE Texas Patriot Guard Rider, NRA Patron, TSRA Life Member (and according to the wife , just a regular old a**hole)

mcp1810

So what are we saying here? We don't want the federal government to enforce existing laws? Straw purchases are against both state and federal law. Whenever someone talks about a new law we yell and scream that they should enforce the laws that are already on the books. Now they are doing that and now we say we want them to go violate peoples 4th ammendment rights at the border instead?

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Waiting on the research and verification.......

zacii

It's not enforcing the laws that's the problem, it's the bureaucrats fishing for statutory criminals instead of good investigations starting with the crime scene. If officials are fishing through legitimate gun transactions to try to find someone they can prosecute, that, in my estimation, is morally wrong. Instead, ought they not start with the alleged "smuggled guns" in Mexico and then work their way back to the source? The great problem I see is that our benevolent gov't is more interested in creating, finding and prosecuting statutory criminals (i.e. people who are criminals 'cause they say so) instead of getting their hands dirty finding the real criminals.....

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Trust in God and keep your powder dry


Superduper Snubbie Thread

Why 1911?

mcp1810

And for a straw purchase the crime scene is? And if someone who breaks the law is a "statutory criminal" how does one become a non "statutory criminal"? I mean, unless you are in a common law state how is one a criminal without violating statutes?

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Waiting on the research and verification.......

natticarry

Add to this the fact you have no 4th amendment rights if you are not a citizen of the united states. I would say walking across the desert at an undesignated border crossing especially if it is a tunnel you dug in a basement is probable cause even if you are a citizen. But you are right mcp1810 I much rather have my 4th amendment rights violated at my house than at the border because I happened to buy an "assault rifle", or is that the other way around??

tbrenke

exactly...

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"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -1792, James Madison
There are always too many Democratic, Republican and never enough U.S. congressmen.

mcp1810

Ok, first, the protections we have under the Constitution are not exclusive to U.S. citizens. Anyone in our country has equal protection under the law. That includes illegal aliens. As far as hiking through the desert carrying these weapons, are your serious? Do you have any idea how many cars and trucks cross the border every day? Do you have any idea how few are searched?
Now please quote for me the section of the article where they mention someones rights being violated. Whose house was searched without a warrant? What property was seized? No warrantless search, no right violated. Sorry, but you don't have a right to not have federal agents knock on your door and ask you questions. You have a right to not to answer the door. You have a right to tell them to go away. Did we all miss the paragraph about the seven thousand five hundred weapons from this area that have been recovered in Mexico? Did we all miss the part about these guys following up on weapons recovered at murder scenes?

Am I to understand that you think it is a violation of your rights for the BATFE guys to come to your house and ask you about a gun that you bought and was found in another country at a murder scene?

And as a matter of fact I have had federal agents show up at my house wanting to see my AR-15! Back during the "Beltway sniper" rampage two Secret Service agents from the task force I was part of showed up at my house while I was away and did the good cop/bad cop routine on my wife. Guess what! Their actions were perfectly legal! All I got out of it was a passing mention in Moose's book (page 123 in the paperback) and a letter of apology.

Does it say anywhere in that article that these record searches at the gun shops are not the result of the trace on the weapons recovered at crime scenes? For those that are not aware, the way a search works is BATFE contacts the manufacturer with the serial number of the recovered weapon. The manufacturer then tells the agent if a warranty card was filed, and who the distributor is they sold the weapon to. If they have a warranty card, they contact the person that sent it in. If not, they contact the distributor. The distributor then tells the agent which retailer they shipped the weapon to. The agent then has to go to the retailer get the purchasers information off the paperwork.
So, with over seven thousand weapons traced back to the Houston area, how is having agents contact the first retail purchasers of those weapons, and asking them how their weapons turned up at crime scenes in another country not investigating crimes?

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Waiting on the research and verification.......