Mediocre gun states - Page 2

Tubby45 · August 11th, 2009, 03:04 PM

MI is mediocre

Good stuff:
Shall issue concealed carry.
Open carry without permit.
No waiting period.
Machine guns, AOWs, DDs legal. SBR and SBS legal if C&R gun on a C&R license.
Castle Doctrine changed from common law to statutory law.
Stand Your Ground law.
Civil immunity for justifiable self defense act.
Full firearm preemption at state level.

Bad stuff:
No suppressors.
SOTs not exempt from SBR/SBS limits.
Pistol registration (any weapon under 30 inches OAL).
Stupid transport laws.
Granholm is still the governor.
Cox is an asshat.

ghost tracker · August 11th, 2009, 03:38 PM

If a state isn't realisic about the 2nd Ammendent, it brings their legislative position on the entire U.S. Constitution into plain sight.

Sig 210 · August 11th, 2009, 08:09 PM

Yep, OK is tied for dead last.

DaveH · August 11th, 2009, 09:51 PM

BTW -- if you go the the Brady bunch site, you can see their point system and how your State got its score --e.g., Virginia:

Quote:

ASSAULT WEAPONS
Are there limitations on assault weapons? No

Virginia - No state restriction on the sale or possession of military-style semiautomatic assault weapons. Assault weapons are as easy to buy as hunting rifles. Congress and President Bush allowed the federal assault weapons ban to sunset in 2004. See also: Large Capacity Ammunition Magazines

BALLISTIC FINGERPRINTING
Must handguns be ballistic fingerprinted prior to sale? No

No state requirement that gun dealers or manufacturers provide police with sample bullets/cartridges or digital images of bullets/cartridges prior to the sale of a handgun, �ballistic fingerprinting,� which would assist police in tracing bullets at crime scenes to the guns that fired them.

CHILD ACCESS PREVENTION - CAP
Are gun owners held accountable for leaving guns accessible to kids? Yes

State law holds gun owners responsible if they leave a gun easily accessible to a child under 14 years old and the child uses the gun to injure or threaten someone.

CHILD-SAFETY LOCKS
Must locking devices be sold with guns? No

No state requirement that guns be sold with child-safety locks that could prevent a tragic accident. Child-safety locks cost as little as $10 and could save lives if sold with firearms.

CHILDPROOF HANDGUNS
Are only authorized users able to operate handguns? No

Virginia - There is no state law mandating that all new handguns be sold with 'personalized' handgun technology that would only allow the authorized user to operate the firearm. Childproof handguns play an important role in helping to prevent unintentional shootings among children and to deter suicides among minors.

GUN DEALER REGULATIONS
Must gun dealers adhere to state licensing and/or oversight systems? Partial

Virginia - The state requires all firearm dealers to obtain a state license to sell firearms. State law mandates licensed firearm dealers to record and retain all sales records on premises. Law enforcement officials are permitted to conduct random inspections to compare a dealer's inventory with the dealer's sales records in order to identify any off-the-books transactions or other discrepancies. State law mandates that a firearm dealer take steps to ensure his/her inventory is protected and secured. (Examples: Locked inventory, product placement requirements, employee screening, install alarm systems, etc.)

GUN MANUFACTURER ACCOUNTABILITY
Do cities have authority to hold gun makers legally liable? No

State law forbids city and county governments from taking any legal action to hold gun manufacturers accountable, even when they act irresponsibly in the way they design, market or distribute weapons. No other industry enjoys such special immunity for irresponsible conduct.

GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE
Are background checks required at gun shows? No

No state requirement that a Brady criminal background check be done on people buying guns at gun shows if they are sold by "private" individuals or gun "collectors." Gun shows can operate on a "no questions asked, cash-and-carry" basis, making it easy for criminals and even juveniles to buy as many guns as they want at gun shows, including assault weapons. No records are required to be kept on gun show sales by private individuals or gun collectors, making it almost impossible for police to trace such weapons if they are used in a crime.

GUNS AT WORK
Are businesses forced to allow guns in the workplace? No

Virginia - There is no state law forcing employers or businesses to allow guns on their privately held property.

GUNS ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES
Are colleges/universities forced to allow guns on campus? No

Virginia - There is no state law forcing colleges/universities to allow guns on campus.

JUVENILE SALE

Is it illegal to sell handguns to anyone under 21 years of age? No

State law does not restrict selling handguns to juveniles under the age of 21 by unlicensed sellers. Under federal law, only federally licensed dealers are prohibited from selling or delivering handguns or ammunition for handguns to any person under the age of 21. A strong state law is needed to stop unlicensed persons from selling handguns to those under the age of 21.

LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION MAGAZINES
Are there limitations on large capacity ammunition magazines? No

Virginia - There is no state law restricting the sale or possession of large capacity ammunition magazines that can fire 30, 50 or even 75 rounds without reloading. Ammunition magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds of ammunition are considered large capacity magazines. These types of ammunition magazines are available for any firearm capable of accepting a detachable magazine, including assault weapons and semi-automatic handguns.

LICENSE OR PERMIT TO PURCHASE
Is a license/permit required to buy handguns? No

No state requirement that handgun buyers obtain a handgun license or undergo any type of safety training prior to buying a handgun.

LIMIT BULK PURCHASES
Is there a one-handgun-per-month limit on sales? Yes

State law restricts gun-trafficking by limiting the number of handguns that can be purchased at one time. No more than one handgun may be purchased by a person within a 30--day period. Unfortunately this law has been severely weakened over the years by exempting CCW permit holders and private sellers from the one-handgun-per-month regulation. The restriction on bulk-buying of handguns helps prevent gun traffickers from buying handguns at gun stores and reselling them on the street to criminals.

LIMITS ON CONCEALED HANDGUN PERMITS
May police limit carrying concealed handguns? No

State law forces police chiefs and state sheriffs to give concealed carry permits (CCW) to anyone who can buy a handgun, allowing them to carry loaded, concealed handguns in public (known as �shall issue�). Police may not even require safety training in the legal or safe use of weapons for CCW applicants. State law allows residents of some other states to carry concealed weapons in this state without informing local police.

MICROSTAMPING
Must new semi-automatic handguns be sold with microstamping technology? No

Virginia - There is no state law requiring new semi-automatic handguns be fitted with microstamping technology, which would engrave on each fired bullet casing microscopic identifying markings that are specific to that firearm alone. This technology would provide law enforcement with another investigative tool to better solve gun crimes and apprehend armed criminals.

PREEMPTION - LOCAL GUN LAWS
May municipalities enact law stronger than the state's? No

State law forbids local city or county governments from enacting any local gun laws, even though the state has failed to pass responsible state-wide laws. This preemption of local government authority makes it impossible for cities to enact sensible gun laws to make their citizens safer. Local laws enacted prior to 1987 were allowed to remain in force.

RECORD KEEPING
May police maintain gun sale records? Partial

Virginia: State law authorizes law enforcement to keep a record for up to 12 months, of every handgun sold in the state by licensed gun dealers in order to enforce the state's restriction on bulk buying of handguns (one-handgun-per-month law). But the state does not keep any records on the sale of rifles or shotguns or on the "private" sale of handguns by individuals. In addition, the governing body of any county may require sellers of handguns to submit detailed sales records to the county clerk. The handgun sale records are maintained by police for use in gun tracing and related criminal investigations and to verify compliance with the state's one handgun per month law. But the state does not automatically compare past gun sale records with recent criminal activity to identify and disarm felons and others who bought guns legally, but later committed a crime or otherwise became ineligible to keep possession of their firearms.

REGISTRATION
Are all guns registered with law enforcement? No

No state requirement that gun owners register their firearms. Police do not know how many guns are in the state or where they are. The lack of registration data makes it more difficult for police to trace guns used in crime, identify illegal gun traffickers or hold gun owners accountable for their weapons. There is no state system to automatically identify and disarm felons and other prohibited people who bought guns legally in the past, but later committed a crime or otherwise became ineligible to keep possession of their firearms.

REPORT LOST/STOLEN GUNS
Are firearm owners required to report all lost or stolen guns to law enforcement? No

Virginia - State law does not require firearm owners to report lost or stolen firearms to law enforcement. This requirement would help to keep illegal guns off the streets by removing the excuse used by gun traffickers that "lose" their firearms.

SAFETY STANDARDS
Are there consumer safety standards on guns? No

No state requirement that handguns meet any basic safety standards. No requirement that guns be sold with a child-safety lock or a built-in �personalized� lock to prevent unauthorized use. No requirement that handguns have loaded-chamber indicators or magazine safety disconnects that could prevent unintentional shootings. The state Attorney General is not allowed to independently establish handgun safety standards.

SATURDAY NIGHT SPECIALS
Are there limitations on 'junk' handguns? No

No state restriction on the sale of Saturday night specials or "junk" handguns. No requirement that handguns meet any safety tests such as a drop-safety test or a firing-performance test. No restriction on the sale of snub-nosed handguns that are very small and easy to conceal.

SHOOT FIRST
Is deadly force allowed to be a first resort in public? No

Virginia - The state does not allow the use of deadly force as a first resort in public.

UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS
Are background checks required on all gun sales? No

Virginia - No state requirement that criminal background checks be done on all firearm sales. People buying firearms at gun shows, swap meets, or through newspaper or internet advertisements are not subject to a background check. Criminal background checks are only required if the buyer goes to a federally-licensed gun store - all other sales are not subject to the background check.

WAITING PERIOD
Is there a waiting period on gun sales? No

No state requirement that there be a waiting period for gun sales beyond the "instant check" in federal law. Police are not given any additional time to run a criminal background check to make sure the gun buyer is not prohibited from acquiring firearms. There is no "cooling off" period to help prevent crimes of passion.

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The gun law summaries provided by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence should not be regarded as explanation of state law. While we try to keep this information accurate and updated, this material is provided for general discussion and reference purposes only.

As you can see some of the things we focus on are not on their list -- e.g., must issue; where you can carry (other than colleges and work); or training/proficiency to get a CHP; suppressors; transport rules; degree of reciprocity; notification (LEO and private property), etc.

So, their ranking might not have a direct negative correlation to one we might create.

dlclarkii · August 12th, 2009, 06:57 PM

Pa is mediocre, two things I wish we had was the right to transport a gun w/o a LTCF and a Castle Doctrine. We can only transport a gun to a range and can not stop in between. We also don't have a true Castle Doctrine. Other than that, anyone can carry OC in public w/o a permit, it's just a matter of getting there since you can't get there w/o a permit to transport your gun so you'd have to walk from your home OCing to OC in public w/o a permit.

kpw · August 12th, 2009, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlclarkii

Pa is mediocre, two things I wish we had was the right to transport a gun w/o a LTCF and a Castle Doctrine. We can only transport a gun to a range and can not stop in between. We also don't have a true Castle Doctrine. Other than that, anyone can carry OC in public w/o a permit, it's just a matter of getting there since you can't get there w/o a permit to transport your gun so you'd have to walk from your home OCing to OC in public w/o a permit.

I think we're much better than mediocre. I would like to see a C.D. law passed. Better transport laws would be nice as well. Further reciprocity agreements are going to be harder to come by because we have no training requirement. Not that I'm for them.

The good stuff? Almost no restrictions as to when, where and how you can carry. NFA/class 3 stuff is ok. We have pre-emption under the UFA. LTCFs are cheap, fast and easily attainable and non-res are issued. No capacity limits. A decent number of reciprosity agreements with other states. No gun signs only mean you have to leave if asked.

Mediocre states? No offence to any state or it's people but most states similar to TX, NC, GA and VA with the type of restrictions seem mediocre. Exceptional are VT and AK. They are as they all should be.

cz2075bd · October 14th, 2009, 06:07 PM

The rankings has Wisconsin as being better than VA for gun rights?!?!?

BlueNinjaGo · October 14th, 2009, 06:12 PM

I can't really speak for other states, since I barely know all of the laws in Texas.

But if I could change Texas laws, I'd probably:

Change the CHL to a Carry Firearm Permit. That way you can get one license and CC or OC. (Thus making OC legal.)

Also, I'd reduce the 5 year waiting period that you encounter after a Class A or B misdemeanor.

DaveH · October 14th, 2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cz2075bd

The rankings has Wisconsin as being better than VA for gun rights?!?!?

As I said before some of the things we focus on are not on the Brady bunch list -- e.g., must issue State; Castle doctrine, issues of where you can carry; amount of training/proficiency to get a CHP; suppressors; transport rules; State preemption of local control, degree of reciprocity; notification (LEO and private property), OC with out any permit, etc.

So, their ranking might not have a direct negative correlation to one, which we might create. Did you notice neither New Hampshire nor Alaska were, in their opinion, the worst, which shows the disconnect in what we value v what they value.

Also, they give credit for some things like "Are gun owners held accountable for leaving guns accessible to kids?" However, there are State Laws and there are State Laws, in this area. Virgina law holds gun owners responsible if they leave a gun easily accessible to a child under 14 years old and the child uses the gun to injure or threaten someone -- what juries here agree as easily accessible would not meet some States "requirements" and there is no prior constraint law.

Again, they give partial credit for some things.

IMHO, Virginia would be somewhere near the middle of a rank listing of States in the things that matter to most of us.

BTW -- the average of the scores assigned by the Brady Bunch was 17.66 and Virginia's score was 18 -- FWETW. Which IMHO, means we have a ways to go.

ecbaatz · October 14th, 2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGP250

If you want to get a good CCW, It needs to be Missouri, Utah or Florida.

It is purely political and how one attorney general deals with another to bargain for equal or better law. I think it is a game they play. Reciprocity in any of these states is better than any others. Missouri is best but you must be a resident. If you are not a resident and and say from Illinois where there is no Concealed Carry Law, we teach Florida or Utah. It is not as good in as many states as MO but gives you the right to carry concealed with reciprocity in several states.

Actually Michigan allows me to carry in more states then does Florida or Utah or Missouri. However there is no non resident permits so you must be a resident. On the flip side, Michigan recognizes any resident state permit, whether they recognize ours or not.

August 11th, 2009, 03:04 PM	#11
Tubby45 VIP Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Making suppressors Posts: 2,406	MI is mediocre Good stuff: Shall issue concealed carry. Open carry without permit. No waiting period. Machine guns, AOWs, DDs legal. SBR and SBS legal if C&R gun on a C&R license. Castle Doctrine changed from common law to statutory law. Stand Your Ground law. Civil immunity for justifiable self defense act. Full firearm preemption at state level. Bad stuff: No suppressors. SOTs not exempt from SBR/SBS limits. Pistol registration (any weapon under 30 inches OAL). Stupid transport laws. Granholm is still the governor. Cox is an asshat. __________________ Freakshow Manufacturing LLC Ammunition- Retail, Wholesale, Law Enforcement

August 11th, 2009, 03:38 PM	#12
ghost tracker Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ky Backwoods Posts: 1,154	If a state isn't realisic about the 2nd Ammendent, it brings their legislative position on the entire U.S. Constitution into plain sight. __________________ There are only *TWO* kinds of people in this world; those that describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

October 14th, 2009, 06:07 PM	#17
cz2075bd Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Sterling, VA Posts: 153	The rankings has Wisconsin as being better than VA for gun rights?!?!? __________________ pro-CZ's, pro-AR's, anti-CZAR's

October 14th, 2009, 06:12 PM	#18
BlueNinjaGo Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 260	I can't really speak for other states, since I barely know all of the laws in Texas. But if I could change Texas laws, I'd probably: Change the CHL to a Carry Firearm Permit. That way you can get one license and CC or OC. (Thus making OC legal.) Also, I'd reduce the 5 year waiting period that you encounter after a Class A or B misdemeanor. __________________ Bersa Thunder .380 cc Springfield XD 9mm sc

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August 11th, 2009, 08:09 PM	#13
Sig 210 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Southwestern OK Posts: 800	Yep, OK is tied for dead last.

August 12th, 2009, 06:57 PM	#15
dlclarkii Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 161	Pa is mediocre, two things I wish we had was the right to transport a gun w/o a LTCF and a Castle Doctrine. We can only transport a gun to a range and can not stop in between. We also don't have a true Castle Doctrine. Other than that, anyone can carry OC in public w/o a permit, it's just a matter of getting there since you can't get there w/o a permit to transport your gun so you'd have to walk from your home OCing to OC in public w/o a permit.