The Four Rules Are The Four RULES For A REASON

The Four Rules Are The Four RULES For A REASON

This is a discussion on The Four Rules Are The Four RULES For A REASON within the Basic Gun Handling & Safety forums, part of the General Firearm Discussion category; This is mostly a rant because there's not a whole lot I can do about it but it still annoys me. I was watching The ...

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Thread: The Four Rules Are The Four RULES For A REASON

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Cypher's Avatar
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    The Four Rules Are The Four RULES For A REASON

    This is mostly a rant because there's not a whole lot I can do about it but it still annoys me.

    I was watching The Cowboys this morning. There's a scene in the begining where two of the kids get in a fight and one pulls a gun. John Wayne takes the gun away a starts lecturing the kids about their guns while using the gun as a pointer and deliberately muzzling several of the kids with it. I've seen this behavior in several of his films.

    Now

    I realize it's a movie
    I realize it probably wasn't even a real gun
    I realize he's John Wayne and he's dead
    I realize as I said earlier there's not a hell of a lot I can do about it.

    But IMO you can't have two sets of rules for loaded guns and unloaded guns. Still IMO but you shouldn't have two sets of rules for real guns and prop guns (I think I'd let blue guns slide in training). Because sooner or later your going to apply the wrong set of rules and kill someone. I went ballistic on a another Sergeant in my unit once for pointing an M16 with a blank adapter on it at me.

    Ok I'm done ranting now.
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  2. #2
    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    There are rules for real life.

    There are no rules, indeed not even reality, when it comes to people pretending to be someone they never could be in a movie.

    Just make sure you remember which is which.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits."

    "What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms." - Thomas Jefferson

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array Cypher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    There are rules for real life.

    There are no rules, indeed not even reality, when it comes to people pretending to be someone they never could be in a movie.

    Just make sure you remember which is which.
    The John Wayne movie was more an example but I've already addressed your concern

    But IMO you can't have two sets of rules for loaded guns and unloaded guns. Still IMO but you shouldn't have two sets of rules for real guns and prop guns (I think I'd let blue guns slide in training). Because sooner or later your going to apply the wrong set of rules and kill someone.

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    The main problem with movies and TV - and internet video stuff too - is that people see it and believe it. And that, my friends, is really scary.
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    Senior Member Array raytracer's Avatar
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    Rule 5: never do anything with a gun that you've seen on TV or in a movie.
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    Senior Member Array Cypher's Avatar
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    Let me see if I can say this a different way.

    My point is this, we shouldn't have two sets of rules for how we handle loaded versus unloaded/not real guns because I think it breeds bad habits.

    Now let me use that scene to illustrate my point.

    I know the scene was scripted but I don't think that specific action of him poking that gun in the kids faces was. I don't think that because I've seen John Wayne exhibit similar behavior in other films.

    I think he didn't think he had to worry about safe gun handling because what the Hell the guns weren't loaded or they weren't real.

    THAT'S the attitude that leads to people being shot by accident.

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    Senior Member Array raytracer's Avatar
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    Just because a gun isn't "real" - i.e a prop gun - doesn't mean it's not dangerous. Ask John Eric Huxum or Brandon Lee about that.

    Since the silents, actors have typically had terrible gun handling skills. Mostly because directors don't care enough to hire consultants, or ride the actors to learn from them. When you come across an actor that does have good safety skills, it's refreshing:


  9. #8
    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    The John Wayne movie was more an example but I've already addressed your concern
    If it isn't real, why be concerned. Movies depict people jumping off 50 story buildings and flying around like birds. I don't see many people trying that in real life. With all due respect, movies have never sought to imitate real life. Only people who can't tell the difference would ever dream of imitating everything they see in a movie. It's fake.

    I'm all for safe gun handling, but if you want to make everything you see in a movie conform to the real world for safety sake, you've got a colossal pile of changes to make in Hollywood. What about people in movies who actually point a fake gun at someone and pull the trigger?
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits."

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    VIP Member Array G-man*'s Avatar
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    There are not two sets of rules.

    Only two types of people.

    Those who obey the rules and those who donít. Thatís all I see here.
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  11. #10
    Senior Member Array Cypher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    If it isn't real, why be concerned. Movies depict people jumping off 50 story buildings and flying around like birds. I don't see many people trying that in real life. With all due respect, movies have never sought to imitate real life. Only people who can't tell the difference would ever dream of imitating everything they see in a movie. It's fake.

    I'm all for safe gun handling, but if you want to make everything you see in a movie conform to the real world for safety sake, you've got a colossal pile of changes to make in Hollywood. What about people in movies who actually point a fake gun at someone and pull the trigger?
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    Rule number six: Rules are made to be broken.
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    In theory, I agree with this principal. However, there has to be two sets of rules. I would never disassemble and clean a loaded gun.

    Also, gun safety has not always been what it is now.
    The Four Rules Are The Four RULES For A REASON-pic-11.jpg
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    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    In theory, I agree with this principal. However, there has to be two sets of rules. I would never disassemble and clean a loaded gun.

    Also, gun safety has not always been what it is now.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    A good point. It made me cringe watching the gun handling in the original True Grit, but it's probably not unrealistic for the setting. I doubt Western settlers were too worried when all their weapons had to be manually cocked, and the "four rules" hadn't come about yet.
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