Ima feel like a dinasaur - Page 2

Ima feel like a dinasaur

This is a discussion on Ima feel like a dinasaur within the Bob & Terry's Place forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Just spitballing here (and not advocating for lawlessness in any way) but this statute represents a soldier who was the "enemy" of our country. It ...

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  1. #16
    Senior Member Array robbnj's Avatar
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    Just spitballing here (and not advocating for lawlessness in any way) but this statute represents a soldier who was the "enemy" of our country. It is indeed a part of history, but do we WANT to have statues of soldiers commemorating the "enemy within"?

    It's supposed to represent students who fought for North and South armies, but the statue faces North (as would a soldier fighting against the North). A Southern soldier was fighting for a state that had seceded from the Union (the United States), primarily to maintain a legal "right" to keep slavery active.
    Double whammy.

    Or am I 100% off base?

  2. #17
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    What is next removal of the monuments in our national parks . Closing of our parks ..https://www.nps.gov/gett/index.htm

    If you don't learn from the past you will not succeed in the future..

    Nazi Germany attempted to do the same ..
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Just spitballing here (and not advocating for lawlessness in any way) but this statute represents a soldier who was the "enemy" of our country. It is indeed a part of history, but do we WANT to have statues of soldiers commemorating the "enemy within"?

    It's supposed to represent students who fought for North and South armies, but the statue faces North (as would a soldier fighting against the North). A Southern soldier was fighting for a state that had seceded from the Union (the United States), primarily to maintain a legal "right" to keep slavery active.
    Double whammy.

    Or am I 100% off base?
    And now we must take into account the compass heading of a "subjectively offensive" piece of history before we may (as an unruly mob) decide whether we are going to summarily destroy it ?
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  5. #19
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    Is it just the confederate soldier monuments being destroyed or is the carnage of the mob being equally disrespectful to the union monuments as well ...



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  6. #20
    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Just spitballing here (and not advocating for lawlessness in any way) but this statute represents a soldier who was the "enemy" of our country. It is indeed a part of history, but do we WANT to have statues of soldiers commemorating the "enemy within"?

    It's supposed to represent students who fought for North and South armies, but the statue faces North (as would a soldier fighting against the North). A Southern soldier was fighting for a state that had seceded from the Union (the United States), primarily to maintain a legal "right" to keep slavery active.
    Double whammy.

    Or am I 100% off base?
    Not to ruffle any feathers, but when brother goes to war against brother, and father fights against son, how exactly do you determine who the "enemy" is? Which Americans who participated in the Civil War, should be designated as "our enemies?"

    I submit that from the perspective of the victor, everybody who wasn't "us" was "them". I guess those Americans who fight for their beliefs, even when they fight on the losing side, should be denigrated. Their memories erased from the public consciousness.

    Not everybody who fought in the Civil War was fighting either for or against slavery. That notion comes largely from the desire to rewrite history by "educated" idiots who should understand the dangers of that.

    "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it."



    But more on topic. If we ever have another Civil War, I believe that this "class privilege" rift that has developed in our legal system, whereby liberal communists and politicians get a free pass to say, do, and act with impunity to the law, may just be the "Fort Sumpter" of it all. I pray it is not.

    "...One nation, under God, with liberty and justice for all..." not so much nowadays.
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    I hope I read this wrong. From the article.

    At one point, there were tense moments between protesters and police officers. Protesters deployed smoke canisters, but no one was injured.
    Protesters deployed smoke canisters? What?
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    The whole incident is absurd; from the children who are acting out, the administrator who acts like it's no big deal, to the careless write-up in need of proof reading. That any of these are tolerated is evidence of the rot within our country. For that matter, even the very notion of Country seems to be at risk in this day and age; appalling!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    The whole incident is absurd; from the children who are acting out, the administrator who acts like it's no big deal, to the careless write-up in need of proof reading. That any of these are tolerated is evidence of the rot within our country. For that matter, even the very notion of Country seems to be at risk in this day and age; appalling!
    You stated the issue very accurately, @Hoganbeg

    And it surely IS appalling.
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  11. #25
    Senior Member Array robbnj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaedrusIV View Post
    And now we must take into account the compass heading of a "subjectively offensive" piece of history before we may (as an unruly mob) decide whether we are going to summarily destroy it ?
    Unless you believe it's sheer coincidence that ALL of the Silent Sam statues were erected to face the North...
    Again, I'm not advocating for what happened. I'm discussing the bigger picture.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    Not to ruffle any feathers, but when brother goes to war against brother, and father fights against son, how exactly do you determine who the "enemy" is? Which Americans who participated in the Civil War, should be designated as "our enemies?"

    I submit that from the perspective of the victor, everybody who wasn't "us" was "them". I guess those Americans who fight for their beliefs, even when they fight on the losing side, should be denigrated. Their memories erased from the public consciousness.

    Not everybody who fought in the Civil War was fighting either for or against slavery. That notion comes largely from the desire to rewrite history by "educated" idiots who should understand the dangers of that.

    "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it."



    But more on topic. If we ever have another Civil War, I believe that this "class privilege" rift that has developed in our legal system, whereby liberal communists and politicians get a free pass to say, do, and act with impunity to the law, may just be the "Fort Sumpter" of it all. I pray it is not.

    "...One nation, under God, with liberty and justice for all..." not so much nowadays.
    Again, I was just spitballing.
    Yes, the war was brother against brother, father agianst son. But, it was a war between states that seceded from the United States of America and states that did not. That makes those secessionist states the enemy of the United States of America.

    Although there is no absolute proof, it's almost universally agreed that slavery was the cause of the secession, and the secession was the cause of the war. Had the "South" not wanted to maintain their ability to bring slaves from the West, they would not have seceded.
    Had they not seceded, there would have been no war.

    "One nation, under God". Not so much back then either!

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    It needs to be melted down and the bronze re-cast into a giant Smiley Face.

    Then everybody can be really happy when they look at it.

    American History! Who needs it!?!

    It's all just "stuff" that happened sometime back there some place....for some reason.
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  13. #27
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    So, the campus police were standing around watching for a couple of hours while the statue was toppled? Does not compute.

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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShooterGranny View Post
    You can't totally rewrite history if you leave reminders of the facts still showing.
    If you try to re-write history, you are bound to repeat it. Slavey and the Confederacy are part of our history. We own it. No one ever said our history was perfect. No country's history is perfect. Complaining about it more than 100 years later is waste of time and breath. England was involved in the slave trade and yet they have moved beyond holding their ancestor's grudges the way Klingons hold onto grudges.

    I don't care about the Slavery of our past. I just don't want to see it repeated. We need to learn from it and move forward. The people that are so pissed off now weren't even living during the Confederacy. They are simply looking for a reason to be angry rather than advancing themselves.
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  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Again, I was just spitballing.
    Yes, the war was brother against brother, father agianst son. But, it was a war between states that seceded from the United States of America and states that did not. That makes those secessionist states the enemy of the United States of America.

    Although there is no absolute proof, it's almost universally agreed that slavery was the cause of the secession, and the secession was the cause of the war. Had the "South" not wanted to maintain their ability to bring slaves from the West, they would not have seceded.
    Had they not seceded, there would have been no war.

    "One nation, under God". Not so much back then either!
    I understand what you are saying, yet rather than argue the point, may I direct your attention to what George Orwell had to say about the mutability of history:

    https://www.cliffsnotes.com/literatu...ity-of-history

    I think the saying is so important that I will repeat it again, "Whoever forgets history is doomed to repeat it." Those who destroy statues that remind us of the terrible price of a civil war, might, in reality, be paving the way for another catastrophe. How? Look at the beginning of this paragraph again. That isn't a fable or myth, nor is it an empty, meaningless catch-phrase. History is littered with the ruins of nations that chose to ignore history.

    I don't think anyone wants to aggrandize slavery. It is, and always has been, an abomination. I would suggest that if we must erase history, we'd better erase all of it. Starting with those who didn't enslave, but slaughtered most of the Native American population. Just my opinions though.
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  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post

    Again, I was just spitballing.
    Yes, the war was brother against brother, father agianst son. But, it was a war between states that seceded from the United States of America and states that did not. That makes those secessionist states the enemy of the United States of America.

    Although there is no absolute proof, it's almost universally agreed that slavery was the cause of the secession, and the secession was the cause of the war. Had the "South" not wanted to maintain their ability to bring slaves from the West, they would not have seceded.
    Had they not seceded, there would have been no war.

    "One nation, under God". Not so much back then either!
    Thats what they would have you believe, it was really about political power. I'd also bet you think it was the southern slave holders who wanted the slaves counted as 3/5ths in the first census.

    BTW, where in the Constitution does it say you cannot leave once you join?


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