Awareness is a Fallacy - Page 11

Awareness is a Fallacy

This is a discussion on Awareness is a Fallacy within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Mike1956 We see it here all the time. A what-would-you-do scenario gets posted, and a good 75% of the responses are "I ...

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Thread: Awareness is a Fallacy

  1. #151
    Distinguished Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    We see it here all the time. A what-would-you-do scenario gets posted, and a good 75% of the responses are "I would never get in that situation in the first place because..." followed by a dissertation on SA.
    Far too many folks think their personal OODA loop consists of nothing more than A...

  2. #152
    Senior Member Array Scouse's Avatar
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    Has any one started a fight, based on your instant reaction to a sure fire notion that you had too! A physical fight.
    The person, or persons just had to be attacked, you had no choice!

    No conversation, or minimum words spoken, and you struck first? And please do not forget I am old! And born in the UK.
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  3. #153
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    The arguments and premise of the original post is silly at best and fallacious at worst. It is an unquestionable fact that situational awareness at any time is better than situational awareness never. The post uses words like "never" and "always" that are silly. No one could ever be always situationally aware. It does not diminish the fact that situational awareness, when practiced, is better odds than situational awareness, not practiced. Silly premise to argue in the context of "you can never be situationally aware always"....of course you can't. But the odds are better for you when you can be situationally aware.

    The highlight premise in the original post was:

    A training regimen which assumes you will always have advance notice of an attack due to superlative situational awareness is fundamentally flawed.
    Forgive my ignorance, as I have not yet run across this philosophy, who specifically teaches that you will always have advance notice of an attack with situational awareness?
    Last edited by CAS_Shooter; January 14th, 2015 at 07:19 AM.

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  5. #154
    Distinguished Member Array TIDEHSV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GCunningham View Post
    Too many people in the business have in fact taken that black/white position (including one prominent person who took my position to extremes and told another prominent person that I was teaching people that SA was useless and they shouldn't bother with it!)

    Let me make this perfectly clear: I don't believe that SA is futile, I don't believe that it's useless. I do believe that it's generally poorly taught, that it doesn't work the way most people think it does, and that too many people teach its use in a way that supports a shooting doctrine which assumes you'll never be surprised.

    I'm actually heartened that so many people on this forum seem to already understand that!
    I feel, and I've tried to get this across, that SA can be taught and reaction to close-hand combat can be taught. I think what I was trying to get across is what's best, I guess, called "pre-SA." I practiced it today. After an afternoon of appointments, I had the choice of two supermarkets to go to. One was a little cheaper, for what I wanted to buy. I don't like its parking lot except in the middle of the day, certainly not late in the day. The other choice was a new one, snug up against a hospital in an upscale development, with security all over the place. I picked the latter. It cost me probably $3-$4. This is what I've been trying to get across. There's a lot more to be derived from prevention than just an ounce...
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  6. #155
    Senior Member Array Scouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIDEHSV View Post
    I feel, and I've tried to get this across, that SA can be taught and reaction to close-hand combat can be taught. I think what I was trying to get across is what's best, I guess, called "pre-SA." I practiced it today. After an afternoon of appointments, I had the choice of two supermarkets to go to. One was a little cheaper, for what I wanted to buy. I don't like its parking lot except in the middle of the day, certainly not late in the day. The other choice was a new one, snug up against a hospital in an upscale development, with security all over the place. I picked the latter. It cost me probably $3-$4. This is what I've been trying to get across. There's a lot more to be derived from prevention than just an ounce...
    If you look different, in any major way, from the people in the store! You stand more of a chance of being targeted.

    $4.00? Good price for more Security.
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  7. #156
    VIP Member Array Fizban's Avatar
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    Mantras are not always intended to be taken literally but merely a method to foster a certain mindset.

    Awareness is not an absolute its a variable.

    If a person incorporates behaviors and methods that are conducive to "awareness" and limits those behaviors which are anti-awareness, he sets the stage. If the stage is set, actions become easier and more fluid. Awareness is a process which is segmented and has no real definable end point. Gather, Filter, Highlight or Disregard- repeat. I make no attempt to realized everything in my environment but simply make a reasonable effort to allow myself the opportunity to realize what I can.
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  8. #157
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    Brownie linked this one on another related, current thread today. Over four years later, it still applies.
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    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill

  9. #158
    Distinguished Member Array Novarider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    We see it here all the time. A what-would-you-do scenario gets posted, and a good 75% of the responses are "I would never get in that situation in the first place because..." followed by a dissertation on SA.
    I said something similar a couple days ago about canned "he need better SA" in another thread where the victim was being blamed because he was using his cell phone. I was vilified by many including you. Interesting you got the opposite response.

  10. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novarider View Post
    I said something similar a couple days ago about canned "he need better SA" in another thread where the victim was being blamed because he was using his cell phone. I was vilified by many including you. Interesting you got the opposite response.
    You confuse disagreement with vilification.
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  11. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novarider View Post
    I said something similar a couple days ago about canned "he need better SA" in another thread where the victim was being blamed because he was using his cell phone. I was vilified by many including you. Interesting you got the opposite response.
    In that case, I think the issue noted was that the victim was in a situation where better practice of SA would likely have saved him a great deal of pain; while this thread, to me, is pointing out that no one has perfect SA, and one must consider surprise as a possibility to plan for.
    "Lots of ways to help people. Sometimes heal patients; sometimes shoot dangerous people. Either way helps."
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  12. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    You confuse disagreement with vilification.

    You and I had a disagreement however others were far from just a disagreement. It's why I didn't respond again in that particular thread. The you're wrong because "I'd never be caught...." and "I see everyone" crap started so I didn't bother. We still said very similar things alltho in different ways.

    Quick note: I didn't realize this thread was so old when I first responded.
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  13. #162
    Distinguished Member Array Cornhusker95's Avatar
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    Non winnable argument no matter what side of the fence you sit on
    Last edited by Cornhusker95; April 25th, 2019 at 02:55 PM.

  14. #163
    VIP Member Array LimaCharlie's Avatar
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    Situational awareness!


    Awareness is a Fallacy-sitaware-2017_01_22-17_26_42-utc-.jpg
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  15. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornhusker95 View Post
    Non winnable argument now matter what side of the fence you sit on
    Personally, I'm more about pointing things out than having, let alone winning, arguments.
    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill

  16. #165
    Distinguished Member Array Cornhusker95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Personally, I'm more about pointing things out than having, let alone winning, arguments.
    Me too...

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