Extreme Scenario Preparedness Discussion

Extreme Scenario Preparedness Discussion

This is a discussion on Extreme Scenario Preparedness Discussion within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I saw this scenario concept a while ago on a forum (I don’t think it was DC- forgive me if it was) and wanted to ...

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Thread: Extreme Scenario Preparedness Discussion

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array WebleyHunter's Avatar
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    Extreme Scenario Preparedness Discussion

    I saw this scenario concept a while ago on a forum (I don’t think it was DC- forgive me if it was) and wanted to present it here for discussion…

    4th of July falls on a Monday this year, and you (along with everybody else, it seems) is trying to leave work a couple of hours early on Friday to get a jump start on the long weekend. You daily commute takes you through a relatively major urban area, and at roughly 4:00 pm, you are rolling along a three-lane wide section of the roadway a bit below the speed limit, but not too bad given the circumstances- you have seen it far worse. You comment to yourself that people are taking advantage of the weekend to move when you see a large U-Haul truck ahead, quickly joined by two similar full-size Ryder and Penske units merging from two side roads.

    As the roadway moves onto a relatively long elevated viaduct section with no exits or on-ramps, the trucks seems to force themselves into three abreast positioning, but nothing that alerts you to anything more than being critical of people driving vehicles way outside their comfort zone. As the trucks, about ten cars in front of you, approach the end of the viaduct section, they seem to slow in unison and suddenly the outer two units turn to block both their current lane and the respective shoulder lane, front ends impacting the jersey barriers. The center truck also slams on the breaks, and within a few seconds, the entire roadway is blocked by these three vehicles. Just after you slam on your breaks to keep from hitting the now stopped minivan in front of you, you see the back roll-up doors on all three trucks open essentially simultaneously.

    Before you can get the “What the [censor]!” out of your lips, you ears are greeted by the first bursts of automatic rifle fire coming from the multiple armed men now plainly visible ahead- some standing in the truck opening, some jumping down onto the road, but all beginning to fire into the stopped automobiles neatly arraigned before them. Within seconds, it becomes clear that they are moving back car-to-car, shooting anyone they see inside a vehicle, or anyone getting out of their vehicle. You quickly glance around, but there is a 40 ft drop off on each side of the road, and nowhere to drive with the surrounding cars compressed into a bumper-to-bumper mass of now screaming and panicking motorists.

    What do YOU do?

    Food for thought topics include:

    Are you alone, or with family?

    Is a normal carry gun worth anything in such a scenario?

    Some people carry a “truck gun” of maybe an AR-pistol or long gun- Could such a weapon even be accessed if needed?

    Does preparing for this (or similar) EXTREMELY UNLIKELY extreme scenario expose you to additional risk from everyday crime- like theft of weapons from your unoccupied vehicle while parked at Walmart, or a child endangerment charge because your terrorist stopper is "unsecured" to the LEO who checks on your kids that you leave in the car while running into the convenience store.

    As Linda Richman would say- “Talk amongst yourselves…”
    CG11 and ETXhiker like this.
    Arkancide- Three self-inflicted gunshots to the head with hands tied behind the back.

    Active Shooter Response- Assess the situation, Position yourself to gain tactical advantage, Engage perpetrator violently (APE).

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    VIP Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    Ah, a Kobayashi Maru scenario!

    Well, having a gun in hand is always better than having nothing.

    As you've defined the scenario, there is nowhere to go off to your flanks and unless you are Sgt, York (or John Wick) a counter-assault is not feasible, so retreat to the rear is your best option. Your window of opportunity is small so move quickly to the rear using the pile-up of cars for cover. If you are at the rear of the cluster you might consider backing out as far as you can along the breakdown lane., then continue on foot. You want to gain as much distance as you can. At the least, you want to draw your attackers off so they are spread out one from the others. If you should be pinned down by one of the furthest outliers I'd think it time for a hasty counter-ambush. If successful, you may have just armed yourself with a more useful weapon. Use it to effect further retreat.

    Beware of the attackers having body armor. Good luck!
    “Propaganda will never die out. Intelligent men must realize that propaganda is the modern instrument by which they can fight for productive ends and help to bring order out of chaos.”
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    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    I agree with @Hoganbeg . And Grant Cunningham. Grant advises to make sure you a fully prepared for all likely scenarios before speculating on unlikely ones. As he says, "Your preparation and training time is a limited resource. A platoon of N. Korean paratroopers could land on your front lawn. But how much time is it worth preparing for it, versus stuff that actually does happen regularly."

    People think that just because they've taken some classes and go to the range a lot, they are 100% prepared to handle an armed mugger, a home invader or a road rager. I guarantee that most of us need to spend more time in common force-on-force scenarios. Those are the basics. I think having those down cold provides the foundation to deal with more extreme situations.

    Having said that, back to your scenario, per the Active Shooter course I took, based on real life situations my best bet is evasion and escape. The shooters are ahead of me on the overpass. I would (and get my family to) bail out of the car, staying down in a crouch, and start getting distance from the gunmen, trying to keep other cars between me and them. Other people will be running panicked down the lane lines and the shoulder. They will be upright, and therefore unfortunately for them, better targets. They will be bunching up, running into people's open doors. I would go where they aren't, alternate between the spaces between the fronts and backs of cars and quick rearward sprints as human traffic allows, staying low.

    The gunmen are going to have to move a moderate pace to shoot everyone in all the cars ahead, or they will leave possible defensive shooters behind them. My goal would be to outpace them and get off the overpass. Once you are off that, your options open up.

    The way I try to think about these scenarios is from the attacker's point of view. I pretend I am being a simulated bad guy in a scenario. I have a hi-cap rifle with plenty of ammo. I have accomplices and we have a coordinated plan. We will have planned to handle some defensive carriers and will be ready for token armed resistance. You have to accept that no matter how good you are and how well you are armed, shooting it out may be futile. I would save the gun for the most extreme situation where you get trapped and can't escape.
    Last edited by jmf552; April 3rd, 2019 at 12:46 PM.
    Attack Squadron 65 "Tigers", USS Eisenhower '80 - '83, peackeeping w/Iran, Libya, Lebanon and E. Europe

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    Distinguished Member Array Novarider's Avatar
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    Are you driving a sedan? Do your rear seats fold down? If so you could crawl into the trunk and hide. I highly doubt they'd take/have the time to check trunks.

    Best option is probably to get out of there as quickly as possible. I'd even consider taking a 40 foot drop vs being gunned down.

    If you want to prepare for this exact scenario, get a 100 foot climbing rope and permanently attach it to a strong part of the car like the seat frame. When this scenario begins, jump out of the car, throw the rope over the embankment and escape.

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    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    OK, while some may think this exercise fantastic, I see it as very practical. This scenario is very possible.
    My opinion is cover, cover, cover. Fighting back with any firearm including a scoped M1a would be futile. Unless you have a mini-gun or Ma with you, shooting back will only make you a target. Most people will be fleeing away from the shooters. I'd probably crawl perpendicular to them. If it's an overpass I'd probably angle towards the shoulder.
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    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    You could always drive a Vulcan Prius. I'd like to see the active shooters go up against 6,000 rpm of 20mm! Great gas mileage too!

    Extreme Scenario Preparedness Discussion-vulcan-prius.jpg
    Attack Squadron 65 "Tigers", USS Eisenhower '80 - '83, peackeeping w/Iran, Libya, Lebanon and E. Europe

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    Ex Member Array Lissa77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    Ah, a Kobayashi Maru scenario!

    Well, having a gun in hand is always better than having nothing.

    As you've defined the scenario, there is nowhere to go off to your flanks and unless you are Sgt, York (or John Wick) a counter-assault is not feasible, so retreat to the rear is your best option. Your window of opportunity is small so move quickly to the rear using the pile-up of cars for cover. If you are at the rear of the cluster you might consider backing out as far as you can along the breakdown lane., then continue on foot. You want to gain as much distance as you can. At the least, you want to draw your attackers off so they are spread out one from the others. If you should be pinned down by one of the furthest outliers I'd think it time for a hasty counter-ambush. If successful, you may have just armed yourself with a more useful weapon. Use it to effect further retreat.

    Beware of the attackers having body armor. Good luck!
    +1

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    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Grab the two bags behind my seat, one with extra mags, AFAIK kit, TQ and the other with my AR Pistol. E&E, destroy any threats.
    Check out the CR-12 - wilkinsontactical.com

  10. #9
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    There is only one good response to the threat. The moment you determine that the ramp is being intentionally blocked you stop your vehicle, get our, and run away from the threat. From the time the truck stop to the time the shooters emerge is thecspan you have to get as far away as you can before the shooting starts. When you are facing a threat with overwhelmingly bad odds there is a high probability of you losing life or limb the only response is a fast retreat. Indecision can get you killed.

    Staying in the car passenger compartment or trunk is not an option. Even hidden in the trunk you might get killed. Maybe a bullet hits the fuel tank. Maybe the BGs decide to torch the stopped cars. In such extreme circumstance you must assume that you are facing the worst case scenario, meaning you will retreat or die.
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    VIP Member Array G26Raven's Avatar
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    WebleyHunter, the only practical preparedness I can envision for this is daily jogging. There's no way the average civilian CCW holder by themselves (or even with an armed spouse) is going to take on truckloads of heavily armed terrorists. I am not saying this is a completely unrealistic scenario to occur; I am in agreement with everyone else here who says the only reasonable response is to create as much distance as possible.
    You are your own first responder.

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    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G26Raven View Post
    WebleyHunter, the only practical preparedness I can envision for this is daily jogging. There's no way the average civilian CCW holder by themselves (or even with an armed spouse) is going to take on truckloads of heavily armed terrorists. I am not saying this is a completely unrealistic scenario to occur; I am in agreement with everyone else here who says the only reasonable response is to create as much distance as possible.
    More likely a VBIED.
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    Check out the CR-12 - wilkinsontactical.com

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    The time to start creating distance is when the trucks come together to block traffic.
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    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill

    Be careful what you put out there. The Universe is listening.

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    VIP Member Array G26Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    More likely a VBIED.
    I am not ready to get rid of my truck just yet...
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    You are your own first responder.

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    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G26Raven View Post
    I am not ready to get rid of my truck just yet...
    No. I mean an attack is more likely a VBIED or lone attacker. The multiple trucks full of attackers is too easy to foil in the planning and execution phases, more the stuff of fantasy.
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    Senior Member Array Bikenut's Avatar
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    Perhaps the best thing to do is to keep on discussing (whether with our friends, ourselves inside our head, or online) as many 'what if' scenarios as possible. Not because it makes us consider what equipment to have, where to keep it, and how to use it. Not because it makes us consider what actions to take or not to take. But because it trains our minds to be open to having equipment and using it as we THINK about what actions/non actions will best serve us in the moment.
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    Unfortunately there are many gun owners who will still shop at Wal Mart even though they know Wal Mart partnered with Everytown for Gun Safety just because it is convenient and they can save a few bucks.

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