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Are the gun/ammo needs of the armed citizen different than for a LEO?

Thread: Are the gun/ammo needs of the armed citizen different than for a LEO?

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  1. LimaCharlie's Avatar

    LimaCharlie said:
    Quote Originally Posted by OD* View Post
    Maybe they should return to the days of yesteryear and recruit actual "gunmen".

    An FBI "gunman" today is a male or female who can hang onto a 9mm semi-auto under the full brutal recoil.
    Second Amendment: The difference between politicians and rulers.
    US Navy - US Army, Retired
    NRA Benefactor Life Member
     
  2. OD*'s Avatar

    OD* said:
    Quote Originally Posted by LimaCharlie View Post
    An FBI "gunman" today is a male or female who can hang onto a 9mm semi-auto under the full brutal recoil.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow.
    End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow."




    NRA Patron Member
     
  3. flh's Avatar

    flh said:
    Quote Originally Posted by OD* View Post
    Maybe they should return to the days of yesteryear and recruit actual "gunmen".
    They want to start with a clean slate , gun guys need not apply...





    I've Been Called A Lot Of Names But Papa Is My Favorite
     
  4. OD*'s Avatar

    OD* said:
    Quote Originally Posted by flh View Post
    They want to start with a clean slate , gun guys need not apply...
    Shows their mentality today. Even J. Edgar, who started that nonsense HIS agents had to be lawyers or accountants, was smart enough to figure-out his college boys just weren't up to the task of capturing/killing real hardcore criminals, so he hired those whom barely had a high school diploma, but they could shoot the testicles off a gnat.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow.
    End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow."




    NRA Patron Member
     
  5. glockman10mm's Avatar

    glockman10mm said:
    Quote Originally Posted by OD* View Post
    Maybe they should return to the days of yesteryear and recruit actual "gunmen".
    But they are crude and rude and to hard
    " Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight.”
    -Jeff Cooper

    “ Looking around doesn’t cost you anything; and it’s a healthy habit”
    -Joe Foss
     
  6. oldshirt's Avatar

    oldshirt said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    So, you mission is to go to the corner store and return safely. You have thrown out a lot of sarcasm, lets throw out a hypothetical;

    Its 10:30 PM, Friday night, your are making a milk run to the mom and pop corner store armed with your trusty 38 snubby, no reload, after all its just the corner store. There are 10 other people in the store when you enter. Some are milling about, some are lined up @ the register. You grab your milk and get in line. A pair of salty dudes enter with pistols announcing a hold up. They order patrons to line up and kneel down facing the wall. You also realize that they a lookout inside the store. So far they have been pretty free using physical violence. And seem to have experience working as a team. As they start searching patrons one begins to resist and is shot in the back.......


    Your move.
    The topic of encountering some kind of group force always comes up in these discussions so let's run through a couple scenarios.

    Is this some kind of motivated, dedicated, disciplined fighting force? If it is, you are probably outgunned and outmanned no matter what you are carrying or how many rounds you have. If they are determined to put up a fight, the amount of ammo you have and how fast you can fire them will only impact how many bodies are laying beside yours.

    If they are a group of loser street urchins trying to score some extra crack money, they'll likely scatter at the first noise and first sign of serious resistance.

    In neither case are they just going to stand still and let someone pick them off one by one.

    Steven Segal usually does a pretty good job of taking down a whole group of bad guys one by one but I doubt if real life goes down like that much.

    If they're dedicated and disciplined, they'll get you even if you have a mini gun. And if they're just a band of douchenozzles, they'll **** their pants and scatter when they hear a loud bang and realize their plan isn't going down the way they planned it. And even then, one of them may get a lucky parting shot off on you as they're running for the door.

    In either scenario the chances of you standing there victorious and unscathed with a ring of bodies laying all around you is about as realistic as the fantasy of delivering pizza to a lesbian oil orgy and having them beg you to bang them all. It makes for good movies but I doubt it plays out like that much in real life.
     
  7. Snub44's Avatar

    Snub44 said:
    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    But they are crude and rude and to hard
    Nobody wants guys like that around...till they NEED guys like that around...height of hypocrisy! Thank God for men who'll stand up and fight when it's necessary.
     
  8. AzQkr's Avatar

    AzQkr said:
    Quote Originally Posted by oldshirt View Post
    The topic of encountering some kind of group force always comes up in these discussions so let's run through a couple scenarios.

    Is this some kind of motivated, dedicated, disciplined fighting force? If it is, you are probably outgunned and outmanned no matter what you are carrying or how many rounds you have. If they are determined to put up a fight, the amount of ammo you have and how fast you can fire them will only impact how many bodies are laying beside yours.

    If they are a group of loser street urchins trying to score some extra crack money, they'll likely scatter at the first noise and first sign of serious resistance.

    In neither case are they just going to stand still and let someone pick them off one by one.

    Steven Segal usually does a pretty good job of taking down a whole group of bad guys one by one but I doubt if real life goes down like that much.

    If they're dedicated and disciplined, they'll get you even if you have a mini gun. And if they're just a band of douchenozzles, they'll **** their pants and scatter when they hear a loud bang and realize their plan isn't going down the way they planned it. And even then, one of them may get a lucky parting shot off on you as they're running for the door.

    In either scenario the chances of you standing there victorious and unscathed with a ring of bodies laying all around you is about as realistic as the fantasy of delivering pizza to a lesbian oil orgy and having them beg you to bang them all. It makes for good movies but I doubt it plays out like that much in real life.
    Well, to begin with, I'm not being placed on my knees and facing a wall. I'll make the stand standing up and whatever goes down goes down. Not going to be a willing victim, no matter the outcome. I do know when I join the party, there's going to be two down before anyone will get me, and I'll be moving while doing so. Might even take one hostage with gun to the head, then they can make their choices from there.

    Tactics plays a bigger part in these scenarios than most people realize
    The mind is the limiting factor

    The lion does not even bother to turn his head when he hears the small dog barking.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/azqkr

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor
     
  9. oldshirt's Avatar

    oldshirt said:
    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    Since no one has stated this before now...It is a false assumption that an LEO off duty is not "on duty." In today's ambush-style assaults on LEO's, one can never be truly "off duty." By department policy I wasn't allowed to be armed on duty. You can bet that there were many, many times I was armed to the teeth when I was "off duty" though.

    And the other truth is that LEO's and citizens carry weapons for only one purpose - to survive. Weapons are tools. True wisdom is knowing which tool will be adequate to allow you to survive the encounter with the unthinkable.

    @Bad Bob Yup....just so. I carried my G27 converted to a G32 with appropriate .357 Sig barrel (4.6 inch) all loaded up with some nice Underwood 124 grain XTPs at almost 1500 fps. Fair copy of the .357 and I put it and a back up mag in a shoulder holster underneath my suit jacket for church last Sunday. Probably the most dangerous place I ever regularly go outside of WalMart.
    That's a fair point about LEO off duty.

    I'm not sure what the prevailing policy and mentality of police departments is today, but back in the rural, midwestern area I grew up in 20-30 years ago, LEOs were never truly 'off duty' and were expected to intervene and prevail if they encountered an event off duty as well as on. The departments in my area required off duty carry and ID etc.

    Which kind of begs the question of what are a lot of LEOs carrying off duty on their personal time? And is that question even being muddied by the fact that a lot of departments also mandate what can and what cannot be carried off duty?
     
  10. oldshirt's Avatar

    oldshirt said:
    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    Well, to begin with, I'm not being placed on my knees and facing a wall. I'll make the stand standing up and whatever goes down goes down. Not going to be a willing victim, no matter the outcome. I do know when I join the party, there's going to be two down before anyone will get me, and I'll be moving while doing so. Might even take one hostage with gun to the head, then they can make their choices from there.

    Tactics plays a bigger part in these scenarios than most people realize
    I agree with you on that.

    I tell my wife and kids that if anyone ever tries to restrain/tie them up or move them from one location to another - fight to the death with whatever means you can because they are going to kill you anyway. If nothing else get their DNA under your nails so on autopsy you can at least help identify them.
     
  11. Bad Bob's Avatar

    Bad Bob said:
    Quote Originally Posted by oldshirt View Post
    The topic of encountering some kind of group force always comes up in these discussions so let's run through a couple scenarios.

    Is this some kind of motivated, dedicated, disciplined fighting force? If it is, you are probably outgunned and outmanned no matter what you are carrying or how many rounds you have. If they are determined to put up a fight, the amount of ammo you have and how fast you can fire them will only impact how many bodies are laying beside yours.

    If they are a group of loser street urchins trying to score some extra crack money, they'll likely scatter at the first noise and first sign of serious resistance.

    In neither case are they just going to stand still and let someone pick them off one by one.

    Steven Segal usually does a pretty good job of taking down a whole group of bad guys one by one but I doubt if real life goes down like that much.

    If they're dedicated and disciplined, they'll get you even if you have a mini gun. And if they're just a band of douchenozzles, they'll **** their pants and scatter when they hear a loud bang and realize their plan isn't going down the way they planned it. And even then, one of them may get a lucky parting shot off on you as they're running for the door.

    In either scenario the chances of you standing there victorious and unscathed with a ring of bodies laying all around you is about as realistic as the fantasy of delivering pizza to a lesbian oil orgy and having them beg you to bang them all. It makes for good movies but I doubt it plays out like that much in real life.
    Hey you started this rodeo.
    A man has got to know his limitations.
     
  12. glockman10mm's Avatar

    glockman10mm said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    Hey you started this rodeo.
    " Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight.”
    -Jeff Cooper

    “ Looking around doesn’t cost you anything; and it’s a healthy habit”
    -Joe Foss
     
  13. LimaCharlie's Avatar

    LimaCharlie said:
    My plan for facing a large attacking force is to do a tactical back-flip with a half-gainer and run like the wind.
    Second Amendment: The difference between politicians and rulers.
    US Navy - US Army, Retired
    NRA Benefactor Life Member
     
  14. Bad Bob's Avatar

    Bad Bob said:
    Quote Originally Posted by LimaCharlie View Post
    My plan for facing a large attacking force is to do a tactical back-flip with a half-gainer and run like the wind.
    I would pay money to see that Haru....


    A man has got to know his limitations.
     
  15. OldChap's Avatar

    OldChap said:
    Steven Segal usually does a pretty good job of taking down a whole group of bad guys one by one but I doubt if real life goes down like that much.
    Steven couldn't take down a row of pansies with a riding lawn mower. Hollywood folks are basically all pretenders - they are not real.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits."