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Are the gun/ammo needs of the armed citizen different than for a LEO?

Thread: Are the gun/ammo needs of the armed citizen different than for a LEO?

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  1. oldshirt's Avatar

    oldshirt said:

    Are the gun/ammo needs of the armed citizen different than for a LEO?

    over the years I have seen various debates over whether one should carry the Phased Pulse Rifle in the 40 Watt Range vs the Hyper Eliminator Extreme 5000 etc etc and it is very common that people will use police shooting statistics or reference what guns and ammo police use and then someone will always mention their cousin Sid who did 4 tours in (insert foreign battle ground) as an Airborne Special Delta Recon Ranger with the Navy Seals that says anything less than an Ionized Magna Disintegrator Plus is a waste of money and is only good for chasing away baby mice.

    I think it is natural that trends in the civil population will be influenced by what is taking place in the police and military world and I dig the latest and greatest firearm developments just as much as the next shooting enthusiast.... But is that always a good thing or not?

    So much question is, is the gun/ammo of choice for an LEO or soldier the best choice for a responsibly armed citizen or are the needs and conditions and scenarios of the common citizen better served with something else???

    Sure, If I am going to be fast-roping onto the rooftop of foreign embassy to rescue hostages from a band of fanatical terrorists eager to get their 40 vestal virgins, I'll take Cousin Sid's word that the Ionized Disintegrator Plus is probably the thing to have. And if I'm going to be making a forced entry into a meth lab being operated by some Columbian cartel then I'd be glad to have the Phased Pulse Rifle in the 40 Watt Range.

    But what if I'm coming home from the office and my wife txts me to pick up a gallon of milk at Quick Trip?? Or what if she's dragging me to the latest Amy Schumer chick flick at the local metroplex theater at night? Or God forbid need to run up to the ATM at night because I promised my teenaged daughter that she could go out with friends and I told her that I'd give her cash if she cleaned out the catbox and emptied the dishwasher without nagging or any back talk? What about those dangers?

    Assuming I'm not HALO jumping into a foreign battle fields or raiding drug labs, is there a gun/ammo combination that better addresses the threats that I could more realistically face at a convenience store, mall, ATM or commuting expressway??

    Glock 17s and Sig P320s are good guns and I'd like to have one of each. But is there something that BETTER serves me as a Workaday Joe Six Pack than the current side arms of professional police officers and soldiers?

    I'm not really asking if this model or that model is "adequate" for a Joe Six Pack vs carrying a standard police or military side arm. I am asking if there is something BETTER that addresses the realistic threats and scenarios that a common Joe Six Pack might face as he carries on his normal daily activities??
     
  2. forester58's Avatar

    forester58 said:
    Everyone either has real or imagined needs to address and often its hard to tell the difference. Having a gun with you always that you can run well, draw quickly and are intimately familiar with is 90% or maybe 92% of the solution. The other 8 to 10% is mostly hot gases and unicorn tears.
     
  3. jmf552's Avatar

    jmf552 said:
    Yours is one of the most bizarre posts I've seen here. It seems you are trying to make some kind of point using tortured sarcasm. You might get a better response if you just came out and gave your opinion and asked your question straight up, in plain language.
    Attack Squadron 65 "Tigers", USS Eisenhower '80 - '83, peackeeping w/Iran, Libya, Lebanon and E. Europe
     
  4. Rob99VMI04's Avatar

    Rob99VMI04 said:
    From a manufacturing stand point it doesn't make much of a cost sense to change between white box stuff that gos out to LE agency .vs a box that has cool pictures on it for marketing reasons as it sits in a Walmart cabinet to draw your attention with cool ballistic information and pictures of perfect expansion. A 124 HST projectile is a 124 HST projectile is a 124 HST projectile.
     
  5. oldshirt's Avatar

    oldshirt said:
    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    Yours is one of the most bizarre posts I've seen here. It seems you are trying to make some kind of point using tortured sarcasm. You might get a better response if you just came out and gave your opinion and asked your question straight up, in plain language.
    No, no point to make.

    My question is exactly what I asked.

    I know there is no one end-all-be-all answer so I am mostly wanting to foster open discussion and debate to gather a variety of thoughts and perspectives.

    As for the sarcasm, I've probably just seen a few too many testosterone-infused youtube videos of guys that seem to want to sell us on weaponry designed for foreign battle fields and urban jungles. Since we are beginning to live in a world of purpose-made guns made specifically for a certain task such as competition, hunting, police duty, home defense, concealed carry etc etc

    So my question is what are all of your thoughts on if there are certain guns/ammo that fit the needs and purpose of the common citizen better than many of the service guns on the market today.
     
  6. OldVet's Avatar

    OldVet said:
    I think the "Carry what LE carries" ammo song is a bit over done, seeing how often agencies change ammo sources. I don't know what my local PD carries and really don't care. I carry common name-brand SD ammo that any Joe Blow on the street might pick up at the LGS.

    As for gun choice, if I could openly carry whatever gun I wanted on a duty belt, then I might carry something other than what I carry now.
    Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon on the loose.
    Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth
     
  7. LimaCharlie's Avatar

    LimaCharlie said:
    Whatever the FBI picks for their "best" caliber, I go two calibers above.
    Second Amendment: The difference between politicians and rulers.
    US Navy - US Army, Retired
    NRA Benefactor Life Member
     
  8. msgt/ret's Avatar

    msgt/ret said:
    Since I do not anticipate fending off a Mongol Horde or taking a major drug cartel down or chasing gangs from a neighborhood I see no reason to base my weapon and ammo choices on what law enforcement or the military need or use.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
    "Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."
    A 9MM MAY expand to .45 but a 45ACP will never shrink to 9MM.
     
  9. jmf552's Avatar

    jmf552 said:
    Quote Originally Posted by oldshirt View Post
    No, no point to make.

    My question is exactly what I asked.

    I know there is no one end-all-be-all answer so I am mostly wanting to foster open discussion and debate to gather a variety of thoughts and perspectives.

    As for the sarcasm, I've probably just seen a few too many testosterone-infused youtube videos of guys that seem to want to sell us on weaponry designed for foreign battle fields and urban jungles. Since we are beginning to live in a world of purpose-made guns made specifically for a certain task such as competition, hunting, police duty, home defense, concealed carry etc etc

    So my question is what are all of your thoughts on if there are certain guns/ammo that fit the needs and purpose of the common citizen better than many of the service guns on the market today.
    OK, fair enough. Here is my take.

    There seems to be two polar views on this, with everyone falling somewhere in between. One camp feels that they want the best that the art of gun design has to offer. They like the high capacity and accuracy of military grade weapons and that the stamp of approval that a military service has put a model through extensive testing gives them a feeling they have the best gun available. Also, a bigger gun is likely to be more accurate, especially at longer ranges. In an all out, prolonged gunfight, they are probably right.

    The other polar view looks at the likely scenarios people might run into, as you say, going to the store, or other daily activities. They want to make sure they have a handy gun that is easy to carry and they will always have on them and a gun that will be optimal in a close quarters situations. IMO, that is a snub nosed revolver, for a number of reasons. For some others on this side, it is a .380 micro pistol "mouse gun."

    Then there are people who carry both. A larger gun and a BUG, so they can have the best of both worlds. Then there are people who feel something in between the extremes is good. The most popular for a while have been the S&W Shield, although the most popular recently has been the Sig P365.

    So the answer to your question is that there is no absolute answer. There is personal preference based on what someone thinks their threats will be, what their capabilities are with a gun and just what they like. I think everyone making a choice of what to carry should think about those factors. Once you have carefully considered those and tried a bunch of options, the choice you make for you will be the right one.

    I carry a snub-nosed .38, although if I really thought I had to go in harm's way, I would carry a Colt 1911 .45 AND a snub nosed .38. But that's just me.
    Attack Squadron 65 "Tigers", USS Eisenhower '80 - '83, peackeeping w/Iran, Libya, Lebanon and E. Europe
     
  10. OldChap's Avatar

    OldChap said:
    I suspect that if you find enough time to read extensively on this forum, you'll find an answer to your question.

    However, only you can define the circumstances you might face. What others might face may be world's different, or not. Read a lot on here and you'll find what guns we carry. Hint: we carry a bunch of different ones. You'll also discover what loads most of us prefer. I suspect somewhere in that array there will be something that will serve your situation.

    Ultimately the final answer for you may be:it depends.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits."
     
  11. rlggray's Avatar

    rlggray said:
    I normally carry a 5 shot revolver, sometimes 2. Sometimes I'll carry a j frame in my front left pocket and a bigger one, example Ruger sp101, iwb right side.

    Sometimes I'll carry a 357 magnum (5 shot) iwb with a speed loader and a speed strip in my right front pocket. This is my favorite setup.

    For the last couple of months I've been trying to like a Springfield xde 45, but I'm having a hard time doing so. I just feel better with a revolver and I can shoot them a lot better. I love me a heavy, double action trigger.

    So ya, I pretty much carry what the police do. (The police of the 1950s) lol
     
  12. graydude's Avatar

    graydude said:
    Quote Originally Posted by oldshirt View Post
    So my question is what are all of your thoughts on if there are certain guns/ammo that fit the needs and purpose of the common citizen better than many of the service guns on the market today.
    The Venn diagram of what you need, what I need, what someone else needs, what cops need, what military need, etc, will have a lot of overlap. But there will also be a fair amount of individual needs not in otherís circles.

    Pick the gun(s) that fit your needs and donít worry about what others think.

    Weíre fortunate to live in a time with many options.
    Ride hard, shoot straight, always speak the truth
     
  13. seeker_two's Avatar

    seeker_two said:


    Good analysis of private citizen defense.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
     
  14. Mike1956's Avatar

    Mike1956 said:
    I have yet to consider anything military or LEO-related when determining my hardware and software needs as an armed, trained citizen. Theirs is not my mission, mine is not theirs.
    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill
     
  15. ColoradoDiablo's Avatar

    ColoradoDiablo said:
    Your post is ridiculous until you get to the end. HALO, FRIES, Airborne Special Delta Recon Ranger with the Navy Seals.... All this shows is that you've watched one too many videos, The History Channel or similar.

    Bottom line is the best weapon for anyone is the one that gets carried and trained on consistently. Anything else is utter BS. Moving on.
    U.S. Army, Retired (1986 to 2014)
    Life Member, Veterans of Foreign Wars