South Florida shootout

South Florida shootout

This is a discussion on South Florida shootout within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I know it's very early on in the investigation of the shooting in south Florida, but I've heard a lot of critical comments directed at ...

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Thread: South Florida shootout

  1. #1
    Member Array danryanpi's Avatar
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    South Florida shootout

    I know it's very early on in the investigation of the shooting in south Florida, but I've heard a lot of critical comments directed at police who were involved. I attribute that partially to media bias against police, and partly to civilian tendencies to view police as overly aggressive.

    I have no first hand law enforcement experience, but I spent my adult life working as a private investigator. I've held a concealed carry permit for decades. I still hold one. I still carry concealed. I'm not so quick to judge the actions of the officers on the scene. I prefer to hear the actual evidence (not speculation).

    We don't know at this point whose bullets hit the two innocent victims. I have been attempting to put myself in the place of the officers. I'm not so sure that I would have done anything different than what they did. The fact is, they had two hard core violent criminals who had already shot one person at the jewelry store and fired on the officers while they were on the run. When they got stuck in traffic, they started shooting again, with many potential shooting victims all around.

    It seems to me that stopping those shooters right away was a priority for the officers. I don't think they had a choice. Also, if you were one of those motorists caught in the crossfire and were armed, would you engage the bad guys? I'd like to hear from others. what do you think? Thank you

    Dan
    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothings. - Edmond Burke

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    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
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    No, I would not join in the fight--I would be too busy driving my way outta there.

    The BGs were slinging lead long before the stop happened. LE had few options at that point.
    Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon on the loose.
    Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

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    Member Array MillennialNorth's Avatar
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    From the brief helicopter footage I saw, nobody on that road knew how to drive worth crap. Nobody is going to be using my vehicle for a baricade with me in it. I'm driving away or running away, but I'm not sticking around to join the fight. There were enough of them there to handle it without me.

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    VIP Member Array WebleyHunter's Avatar
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    More than likely I am using the full capabilities of my vehicle to relocate to new area post haste. If that proves impossible, the immediate situation would dictate whether I would- (a) drop to the floor boards, (b) exit the vehicle, or (c) draw a weapon and engage (least likely unless BG's had ID'ed me as a follow-on target).
    MillennialNorth and msgt/ret like this.
    Arkancide- Three self-inflicted gunshots to the head with hands tied behind the back.

    Active Shooter Response- Assess the situation, Position yourself to gain tactical advantage, Engage perpetrator violently (APE).

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    Member Array Encore2016's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebleyHunter View Post
    More than likely I am using the full capabilities of my vehicle to relocate to new area post haste. If that proves impossible, the immediate situation would dictate whether I would- (a) drop to the floor boards, (b) exit the vehicle, or (c) draw a weapon and engage (least likely unless BG's had ID'ed me as a follow-on target).
    Yes this one, +1. Another consideration to engagement would be You getting falsely ID'ed as a bad guy by an LEO or another civillian.
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  7. #6
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    I do have a bit of experience in policing. As well as having investigated police shootings, the truth is it dont take very long to investigate a shooting.Although this one is a doozy because of how many shots were fired by so many people. i'm hearing that the the information is the police fired the shots killing the driver and the innocent bystander

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    Member Array TimBob's Avatar
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    Yep, drive outta there!

    A few years ago my wife and I were on our way home late at night. No traffic, but we were stopped at a red light, urban area, four lane street.

    There was a car behind us and one next to us. Suddenly a guy from the car behind us jumped out and began smashing the windows of the car next to us!

    Did I take out my phone and video tape it? Did I roll out of my car door John Wick style, and engage the man swinging the bat?

    Nope. I hit the gas and ran the red light.

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    Distinguished Member Array drmordo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimBob View Post
    Yep, drive outta there!

    A few years ago my wife and I were on our way home late at night. No traffic, but we were stopped at a red light, urban area, four lane street.

    There was a car behind us and one next to us. Suddenly a guy from the car behind us jumped out and began smashing the windows of the car next to us!

    Did I take out my phone and video tape it? Did I roll out of my car door John Wick style, and engage the man swinging the bat?

    Nope. I hit the gas and ran the red light.

    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
    This reminds me of a buddy who went to Tallahassee twice.

    First time, he was the third car at a single lane redlight. As he watches, the guy from the first car at the redlight gets out of his car with a baseball bat and smashes in the windshield of the second car at the light. After he had smashed it to his satisfaction, he got back in his car and drove off.

    Second time, he sat in a pizza shop and watched a pizza delivery guy coming back from a delivery run get robbed at gunpoint in the parking lot.

    He never went back to Tallahassee.

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    Member Array danryanpi's Avatar
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    My own thought is that I would not engage them, simply because there are multiple LEOs in the area. Another source of gunfire would just give them another target to shoot at (me) under a stress fire situation.
    drmordo likes this.
    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothings. - Edmond Burke

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    Distinguished Member Array drmordo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danryanpi View Post
    My own thought is that I would not engage them, simply because there are multiple LEOs in the area. Another source of gunfire would just give them another target to shoot at (me) under a stress fire situation.
    Agreed - if a LEO is exchanging fire with bad guys, the only thing I will be doing is GTFO as fast as I can. I guess the one exception is if I was cornered and the BG looked like he might target me, but immediately afterward my gun would be on the ground.

    I think it's very, very important to remember that just because we are armed, we are not a LEO. Shoot if your life is threatened, otherwise run.
    ButtShot14 and RedSafety like this.

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    VIP Member Array Texas Red's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danryanpi View Post
    Also, if you were one of those motorists caught in the crossfire and were armed, would you engage the bad guys? I'd like to hear from others. what do you think? Thank you

    Dan
    Join a running battle between bandits and LE?

    No way.

    You're likely to be seen as another BG by LE. I'm not a cop and I'm not being paid to help break up a battle where I'd be mightily out gunned and all on my own.

    Leave it to the guys who are armed and prepared for such scenarios.
    scottync likes this.
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    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    My main rule is, "Not my circus, not my monkeys" I carry to protect me and mine. That being said I will defend an innocent third party if, and only if:
    • I am absolutely sure of the situation, who is who and what is what.
    • I can make a decisive difference without additional risk to me and mine and other innocent parties.

    I am not a LEO, a vigilante or a wannabe hero. I put myself in harm's way for the greater good in the military. I have nothing to prove to myself or anyone else. Sometimes you just have to accept that (excrement) happens and you can't solve all the world's problems.
    Attack Squadron 65 "Tigers", USS Eisenhower '80 - '83, peackeeping w/Iran, Libya, Lebanon and E. Europe

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    Member Array TimBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drmordo View Post
    This reminds me of a buddy who went to Tallahassee twice.

    First time, he was the third car at a single lane redlight. As he watches, the guy from the first car at the redlight gets out of his car with a baseball bat and smashes in the windshield of the second car at the light. After he had smashed it to his satisfaction, he got back in his car and drove off.

    Second time, he sat in a pizza shop and watched a pizza delivery guy coming back from a delivery run get robbed at gunpoint in the parking lot.

    He never went back to Tallahassee.
    Yikes! I got lost in Tallahassee once and ended up in a bad part of town. While stopped at a red light a guy came up to the car window and tried to sell me crack cocaine. I told him no thanks.

    Lived in the greater Tallahassee area for 3 years... Long ago.

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    Last edited by TimBob; December 10th, 2019 at 11:47 PM.
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    VIP Member Array scottync's Avatar
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    I went down to Miami after Hurricane Andrew on FEMAs dime and stayed a week. One afternoon, we were in our rental car and stopped at a red light. We were behind a guy in convertible with his girlfriend. The light turned green, and a group of twenty-somethings proceeded into the intersection crosswalk. The guy had some words with the group, and one of the kids banged his fists into the front hood of the convertible. The driver jumped out of his car a melee ensued. We drove around the convertible and left as things descended into chaos.

    Big city life. I don't do it well. I'm not getting involved unless me or a member of my family is threatened. Perceived innocents? Yes. But when the police are already involved, oh hell no.
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    "The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." - Sam Adams

  16. #15
    Distinguished Member Array RedSafety's Avatar
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    Individual circumstances vary, even within a single event. I agree with OldVet, though. If possible, the best option is to escape. If that's not possible, or too close to the danger, you bet I'll have my pistol out and defend myself and those around me. I hope it doesn't come to that, but I'm ready in case I have to. I had one time I had my gun drawn, but by the time I got outside, the situation changed dramatically. I've had two times I've had to have my hand on the grip, but thankfully the situations did not cross that line.
    When seconds count, help is only 18+ minutes away!

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