Standards of Marksmanship

Standards of Marksmanship

This is a discussion on Standards of Marksmanship within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In the wake of the Texas church shooting, a lot has been said about the hero, Jack Wilson, and how he was able to take ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array Well_Regulated's Avatar
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    Standards of Marksmanship

    In the wake of the Texas church shooting, a lot has been said about the hero, Jack Wilson, and how he was able to take out the shooter in six seconds. One thing not seemingly covered was that one of the dead men was shot trying to pull his own weapon. That was 3.1 seconds. So, how long is 3.1 seconds? Six seconds? Do you think you could react the way Wilson did?

    Here's a very interesting and informative video showing what Wilson had to do, how fast, and is instructional for all of us.

    You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you're not capable of great violence, you're not peaceful, you're harmless.

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    Distinguished Member Array xXxHeavy's Avatar
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    All well and good but after listening to Mr. Wilson's interview, it seems they had the eye on this fella as soon as he entered....something wasn't right, security cams. were trained on him....IMO, he should have been stopped at the door by a few gentlemen before he was allowed to enter the church....IMO, Mistake #1...and what kind of shotgun was it that he could smuggle it in anyway.....omo.
    Why did the Moron buy a ladder...... he's takin' his case to a higher court.

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    I agree with the sentiment expressed in the video.

    There were however some extenuating circumstances that resulted in the hero of the story taking longer to fire, such as waiting for parishioners that were in his line of fire to move.

    Now, as far as being with in a three yard distance, and taking 3.1 seconds to draw and fire, it is my utmost belief that you should not be standing still while drawing. One can achieve very good center body hits while drawing and moving in an oblique away from the threat in well under three seconds firing multiple well aimed shots. IMO, this creates the highest chance of survivability.

    Other than that, I agree on all points.
    " Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight.”
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    Distinguished Member Array KILTED COWBOY's Avatar
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    I will never know my reaction times unless I am put in that situation, and i pray I never have to find out.
    I will train the best I can and leave the rest in the hands of the creator

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    Senior Member Array BCC73's Avatar
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    To learn from these incidents as a useful tool for us is important. No matter what we carry or how we carry it is a personal thing, but being prepared takes much practice. For those of us that might be stuck practicing indoors, is more challenging but still can accomplish some good practice other than just shooting paper !!
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    I have the Right to remain silent....just NOT the ability !!!
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    IMO, one of the most difficult things to do is overcome the thought "this can't be happening" and deciding to draw and shoot. Our brain's ability to assess and stimulate our large muscle groups to perform the actions necessary is restricted due to our infrequent exposure to these situations and the adrenalin rush that results in paralysis and tunnel vision.

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    I've never seen realistic civilian training that taught/covered knocking the barrel of a long gun/shot gun our of line when the shooter is within arms reach, instead of first attempting to draw. I am aware of several police academy courses/trainings that do so. Other than that, the volunteer security at the church did an amazing job. Its always easy to Monday morning quarterback and I am not a fan of the speaker in the video offered at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXxHeavy View Post
    All well and good but after listening to Mr. Wilson's interview, it seems they had the eye on this fella as soon as he entered....something wasn't right, security cams. were trained on him....IMO, he should have been stopped at the door by a few gentlemen before he was allowed to enter the church....IMO, Mistake #1...and what kind of shotgun was it that he could smuggle it in anyway.....omo.
    I haven't watched the video in a day or two, BUT it sure looked like this. NOT TO NENTION, THIS could easily be concealed under his trench coat.

    Standards of Marksmanship-50651_590_nightstick_talopng-e1541542032437.png
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    Let's face it, very few of us are "Tom Cruise"! All we can do is stay vigilant, and practice! (video has colorful language!)

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    Whose "standards"?
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    Jack Wilson had just seen two of his friends murdered. There were panicked people moving around between him and the murderer. He kept his head while others were losing theirs. And he made a ******* good life saving shot. An ordinary man performed an extraordinary deed. Good For You Jack Wilson! God rest the souls of the two who lost their lives!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete63 View Post
    I haven't watched the video in a day or two, BUT it sure looked like this. NOT TO NENTION, THIS could easily be concealed under his trench coat.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yes it can be concealable. I was always amazed that they were legal when they first came out. Not that i have a problem with them being legal, I do not.
    After this, I wonder if the Fed's will be reconsidering their legality.
    I tried one when they first came out and did not care for them, but still do not want them or any firearm banned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KILTED COWBOY View Post
    Yes it can be concealable. I was always amazed that they were legal when they first came out. Not that i have a problem with them being legal, I do not.
    After this, I wonder if the Fed's will be reconsidering their legality.

    I tried one when they first came out and did not care for them, but still do not want them or any firearm banned.
    Me TOO!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Man View Post
    IMO, one of the most difficult things to do is overcome the thought "this can't be happening" and deciding to draw and shoot. Our brain's ability to assess and stimulate our large muscle groups to perform the actions necessary is restricted due to our infrequent exposure to these situations and the adrenalin rush that results in paralysis and tunnel vision.
    About a year ago I took a two-part training at my local range/gun shop. Its title was "Violence Dynamics / Active Shooter Response." The morning was a class taught by a psychology PhD who also happened to be a Krav Maga instructor. The afternoon was filled with real-life scenarios in a facility built specifically with a number of locale settings (office building, cafe, warehouse, etc.), where the "bad guys" (actual firearms instructors) shot blanks, and we had to react and respond.

    The classroom course was based on the works of Rory Miller. I'm not trying to flack for him, but he's written a number of books and teaches all about violence. He's also got some Youtube videos on the subject. Here is his web site. The key take-aways (there were many!) I got from this course are:
    • There are two types of violence: social and asocial (outside the "tribe" so to speak)
    • We have three "brains:" Lizard, Monkey and Human. They operate at different levels
      • Lizard Brain = physical survival
      • Monkey Brain = Social survival
      • Human Brain = Strategic (this must be trained!)
    • Therefore, most reactions are NOT to the benefit of you or your task!

    The key take-away, and this was demonstrated by Jack Wilson, is BREAKING THE FREEZE.
    Everyone freezes. For how long is based on training.
    The best way to break the freeze is to "impact the physical universe." Put in English: MOVE. Put another way, Learn to listen to your Lizard brain!

    Training such as this I find vital. I hope to never be in the position Jack Wilson found himself in, but training - both physically AND mentally - is the best preparation one can have. Then, it becomes "mechanical," as show in the video I posted.
    You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you're not capable of great violence, you're not peaceful, you're harmless.

  16. #15
    JD
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    Regarding standards, these are credited to John Hearne. And are pretty good goals to strive for.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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