Actual scenario; shoot through door?

Actual scenario; shoot through door?

This is a discussion on Actual scenario; shoot through door? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Alright this actually happened recently and I would like to know what others think. So an acquaintance of an acquaintance (long story short; only the ...

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Thread: Actual scenario; shoot through door?

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    New Member Array sickwayne's Avatar
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    Actual scenario; shoot through door?

    Alright this actually happened recently and I would like to know what others think. So an acquaintance of an acquaintance (long story short; only the pertinent info) with his wife and son home, saw in his driveway and then front door that there were 5 or 6 people apparently attempting to kick in the door while demanding money. At least 1 was armed. The homeowner, also armed, shouted to leave, things escalated ( I assume all types of threats, names and insults ensued but I don’t know), the armed intruder actually shot his gun into the air. Then they left, the homeowner did not shoot.

    I was asked what should he have done.

    My opinion is they may come back, being they were violent and feeling they are owed money. And next time may be more persistent. I think this guy and his family are potentially in as much danger today as they were in the moment that night. I think he should have shot through the front door. Keeping in mind through my front door is downwards with no dangerous trajectory except for those at the door. I think his door affords him no protection from the armed man outside and therefore he was in danger of being shot himself.

    I pray I am never in his shoes, and he is a lot better off financially and legally today having handled it the way he did. But really, those guys outside stated they were owed money (details) but not by the homeowner, but they were going to come in and forcibly get their money from him anyway. They may very well continue their antics and is he really better off for his actions or no? I think he was in life threatening danger that night and got lucky the other guy didn’t decide shoot him, because he WAS armed and DID shoot his gun, just into the air instead of into the house.

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    VIP Member Array ColoradoDiablo's Avatar
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    More information is needed. What is beyond the door? Are there potentially innocents in the line of fire for shots fired through the door? Am I close to reasonable response from law enforcement? Can I find a better position from which to defend should the door be breached? Are all or one carrying firearms (how many are actually carrying firearms)?
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    Ex Member Array xXxHeavy's Avatar
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    Claymores...……...omo.

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    It depends on the State in which it occurred. In Free States you can defend yourself and your home, but in places like Kommiefornia, New Germany, Neu Yawk, etc. doing so brings a firestorm down upon you. Don't follow Joe Biden's advice (on this or anything else):

    https://www.usnews.com/news/articles...-biden-in-jail
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    Ex Member Array Cypher's Avatar
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    Do we have a news report or other Independant confirmation
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    VIP Member Array 5lima30ret's Avatar
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    First welcome to the forum! My old suspicious cop nose smells some sort of drug debt. That will usually come out in the wash in court, based on my experience! Just my .02 worth!
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    VIP Member Array LimaCharlie's Avatar
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    Either drug debt or wrong house.


    Actual scenario; shoot through door?-home-defense.jpg
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    New Member Array sickwayne's Avatar
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    I have no other info, no report. I don’t even know the homeowner myself.
    No clue what is beyond the door or how close by law enforcement would be. No way for anyone to know exactly how many armed assailants there were, not that I think it matters, one is enough of a threat. I don’t know the home layout but I don’t know of a home where it would be better or safer for you to allow someone to enter first before stopping them.

    It occurred to me that the homeowner may not have known there was a gun outside. I thought he saw when they got out of the car, but maybe not. If he didn’t know then he made very rational decisions.

    Again I think the front door is no better than cardboard if there is a gun outside. Maybe stay away from the door if at all possible.
    My home layout is such that I have family members up stairs and downstairs sometimes with the front door being in between the pathway.
    It’s such a grey area from one scenario to the next and your right, we couldn’t know without more info.

  10. #9
    New Member Array sickwayne's Avatar
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    Smart people! I have respect for these folks even though I don’t know them. There was a debt involved, however not on the part of the homeowner or anyone home at the time.
    The impression I got was that the guys outside knew who was home and who wasn’t and were there just the same.

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    VIP Member Array dangerranger's Avatar
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    Here in Komnefornia, If you can show imminent threat of Death or bodily harm firing through the door would be an act of Self defense. But If you fired on them to protect your money, You would be up a creek!

    That said, I'm another that senses there are more illegal acts here that no one wants to admit too! And Self Defense to protect a criminal act probably isn't going to play out in court the way you want! Good Luck, to the friend of your friends friend! DR
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    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
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    Based on the limited data in the OP, FL law says this:

    776.013 Home protection; use or threatened use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—
    (1) A person who is in a dwelling or residence in which the person has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and use or threaten to use:
    (a) Nondeadly force against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force; or
    (b) Deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony.
    (2) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using or threatening to use defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
    (a) The person against whom the defensive force was used or threatened was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
    (b) The person who uses or threatens to use defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.

    So in my non-attorney understanding, a group of men--at least one armed--attempting to break in would be a green light to defend one's self, even if it required shooting through them stop to stop the break in.

    Disregarding all other "What Ifs."
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    Distinguished Member Array Novarider's Avatar
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    No I would not shoot through the door.

    I would stand at the ready, AR pointed at the door from behind cover and my wife would be covering the back door with 911 on the phone. The very instant that door got breached I'd open fire.

    Doesn't matter if anyone in the house owed them money or not. I'm defending my home and my family.
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  14. #13
    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    First...As @PPS1980 suggests, any thought of shooting through a door had better be couched in a large amount of time studying the self defense laws of your state. Some states will tolerate such, and some will simply try to hang you. Do not follow anyone's advice about this. Do the research, talk with a local PD detective, talk to a competent criminal defense attorney...do whatever necessary to come to a clear understanding of what is legal and what isn't.

    Second...As @5lima30ret says, criminal investigative techniques in most areas of the US are extremely thorough. If there are skeletons in your closet, they will find them. Those skeletons will cloud a good, legal shoot into a criminal act on your part. Prison is no picnic - avoid it at all costs.

    As a friend of mine was overheard telling a home invasion "victimized" drug dealer early one morning, "Hey bro, if they start kickin' your door down, call 911 and let 'em know someone is trying to break in and steal your stash. We'll drop by."

    Lastly. Having worked a couple of home invasion incidents...my thought is "defend the home" - from INSIDE. Shooting through doors would be a last resort, IMHO. Many of us keep weaponry larger than a handgun at bedside. AR's are good, 12 gauge shotguns loaded with 00 or #1 buckshot are better. It takes a very determined home invasion crew to charge into a house, after kicking the door down, when met with a blast from a 12 gauge. The vast majority will disappear like cockroaches in the light. Don't shoot through a door unless it is INSIDE your home. Even then, you run a terrible risk of it not being who you thought it was on the other side.

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    Senior Member Array retired badge 1's Avatar
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    Sounds like there was plenty of time to get the hearing protection and shooting glasses on, just in case.

    Seriously, getting the family into the safest spot (barricaded bedroom, crawl space, attic, whatever), assuming a defensive position (or positions) to cover the entrance(s) where the noise is coming from, dialing 9-1-1 and leaving the phone line open so the shouting and threats are recorded, all seem like reasonable precautions. Personally, I would be very reluctant to shoot through a door (or window, or wall) in a residential area. Multiple people breaking through a door (or window, etc) and forcing entry creates a much different defensive situation, and after the first round or two of 12-gauge I doubt many more would continue the attack.
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  16. #15
    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    ^^^^ YUP.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits."

    "What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms." - Thomas Jefferson

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