2006 Findings from the FBI about Cop Attackers & Their Weapons

2006 Findings from the FBI about Cop Attackers & Their Weapons

This is a discussion on 2006 Findings from the FBI about Cop Attackers & Their Weapons within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; While this information is NOT new it may not be common knowledge so it bears repeating for those who have never heard it. Findings from ...

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Thread: 2006 Findings from the FBI about Cop Attackers & Their Weapons

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array Two Bears's Avatar
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    Red face 2006 Findings from the FBI about Cop Attackers & Their Weapons

    While this information is NOT new it may not be common knowledge so it bears repeating for those who have never heard it.

    Findings from the FBI about Cop Attackers & Their Weapons

    New findings on how offenders train with, carry and deploy the weapons they use to attack police officers have emerged in a just-published (2006), 5-year study by the FBI.

    Among other things, the data reveal that most would-be cop killers: show signs of being armed that officers miss; have more experience using deadly force in “street combat” than their intended victims; practice with firearms more often and shoot more accurately; have no hesitation whatsoever about pulling the trigger. "If you hesitate," one told the study’s researchers, "you’re dead. You have the instinct or you don’t. If you don’t, you’re in trouble on the street..."

    These and other weapons-related findings comprise one chapter in a 180-page research summary called "Violent Encounters: A Study of Felonious Assaults on Our Nation's Law Enforcement Officers." The study is the third in a series of long investigations into fatal and nonfatal attacks on POs by the FBI team of Dr. Anthony Pinizzotto, clinical forensic psychologist, and Ed Davis, criminal investigative instructor, both with the Bureau’s Behavioral Science Unit, and Charles Miller III, coordinator of the LEOs Killed and Assaulted program.

    "Violent Encounters" also reports in detail on the personal characteristics of attacked officers and their assaulters, the role of perception in life-threatening confrontations, the myths of memory that can hamper OIS investigations, the suicide-by-cop phenomenon, current training issues, and other matters relevant to officer survival. (Force Science News and our strategic partner PoliceOne.com will be reporting on more findings from this landmark study in future transmissions.)

    To read the rest here is a link> News from The Force Science Research Center

  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array ETXhiker's Avatar
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    Good read. Disturbing, but enlightening. Kills the old myth that gangbangers never practice and just spray and pray. Already knew most of them have no conscience.
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    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    I would take it with a grain of salt. Published 14 years ago, from data older than that. You can look at the mistakes made by LE and they will be the same as today. However, For the last several years the tactics of many cop killers has changed. There have been more and more ambushes and executions of cops of late. The cartels have exerted more influence and drug use has sky rocketed in rural America.
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    VIP Member Array Fizban's Avatar
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    if you read the article.. "practice with firearms more often and shoot more accurately" is a rather loose characterization in my estimation.

    No matter if your attacker is a bumbling goof or a elite combatant, makes no difference in the way you should train. I would not take an armed attack to be less serious or more serious based on any "study". As far as I am concerned, the person trying to hurt me is the most dangerous person on the planet.
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    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    One of the most dangerous situations for police is the boredom the work encourages. An officer on patrol goes from being bored and basically oblivious to his/her surroundings to being in a potentially deadly situation in just moments. I have always been amazed by dash cam records showing an officer not fully mentally focused on an actor and missing numerous obvious (to the trained and alert) warning signs of an impending attack.

    I repeatedly saw officers miss the signs an actor was about to flee. Others seemed to "sense" the intentions to run and anticipate it to the point of recapturing very quickly. I would not be surprised to find that, more than anything else, lack of mental alertness and focus was a major contributing element in officer involved shootings.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits."

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    VIP Member Array Nmuskier's Avatar
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    Around the time this came out, the military reported gangs sending new members with clean records into the armed forces. The members took in the weapons and tactics training, then trained the gang members back home. That data may have been too new to make it into the report.

    I don't know if that strategy is sustained today, with the drawdown in our middle east operations.
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    Member Array JAG45's Avatar
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    I read this back in the day. The, practice with firearms more often and shoot more accurately, I found was contradicted in the paper itself if you read all the way through it.
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    Distinguished Member Array TSKnight's Avatar
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    Not positive, but if I remember correctly, much of the offender interview information came from earlier work done by Samnow in his research for "Inside the Criminal Mind". That work has been revised and expanded since this study was released.

    I know first hand that organized gangs regularly seek to train members in different areas that will further their enterprise.

    Had a classmate in 2003 who was a business major. He was also a high ranking member in an Asian gang with nationwide influence. He approached me about training some of his friends in weapons and tactics. I declined with some trepidation.
    His range of influence was frightening. He had people here in MN, in FL, TX, and CA who knew my Family as well as the local influence in WI where we were in college.

    One contract where my Brother and I worked security had regular trouble with local gangs. Except when one of us was working. I found out later that my classmate had put us under his protection. He had also listed as off limits the Habitat for Humanity warehouse in that area because "...knocking off charities is bad for business..."
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    Ex Member Array Two Bears's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    I would take it with a grain of salt. Published 14 years ago, from data older than that. You can look at the mistakes made by LE and they will be the same as today. However, For the last several years the tactics of many cop killers has changed. There have been more and more ambushes and executions of cops of late. The cartels have exerted more influence and drug use has sky rocketed in rural America.
    Yes, it is older. I am always looking for newer data. Every bit helps. Please share all you know Bad Bob as I am always willing to learn all that I can!

    In high stress one tends to go to what one has trained to do. Some people have died trying to "police up their brass" as that is how they constantly trained. How many people think about moving to cover but just stand there unprotected? You must train your mind and your muscle memory until it becomes reflex to up your survival potential. I am sure no gunslinger but I have heard the sonic crack as a bullet passed by my head before the sound of the report reached me on more than one occasion. I by the grace of God and the fact I have been able to function under that stress am still alive.
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    Ex Member Array xXxHeavy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSKnight View Post
    Not positive, but if I remember correctly, much of the offender interview information came from earlier work done by Samnow in his research for "Inside the Criminal Mind". That work has been revised and expanded since this study was released.

    I know first hand that organized gangs regularly seek to train members in different areas that will further their enterprise.

    Had a classmate in 2003 who was a business major. He was also a high ranking member in an Asian gang with nationwide influence. He approached me about training some of his friends in weapons and tactics. I declined with some trepidation.
    His range of influence was frightening. He had people here in MN, in FL, TX, and CA who knew my Family as well as the local influence in WI where we were in college.

    One contract where my Brother and I worked security had regular trouble with local gangs. Except when one of us was working. I found out later that my classmate had put us under his protection. He had also listed as off limits the Habitat for Humanity warehouse in that area because "...knocking off charities is bad for business..."
    So you said no to the Codfather...…….

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    Ex Member Array Two Bears's Avatar
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    It is our responsibility to at least try to pass on anything we who have survived the lessons we have learned to those younger that follow so they do not make the mistakes we and others we have observed have made. There is no guarantee anyone will listen much less learn from us but if we can save but one life is that not worth the effort? I never thought I would live to be as old as I am now. I am older than my grandfather and my father and my mother's father. I never expected this. I was supposed to have died in 1972 and that weighs on me at times very heavily. At times I even wish I had gone on that patrol and been MIA like all the rest are. Survivors guilt is really hard sometimes. Its just another reason I withdrew from society and even family. I lost all my TRUST in everyone especially the Army.

    I know I am broken but at 70 years old I can't fix it.

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    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Bears View Post
    Yes, it is older. I am always looking for newer data. Every bit helps. Please share all you know Bad Bob as I am always willing to learn all that I can!

    In high stress one tends to go to what one has trained to do. Some people have died trying to "police up their brass" as that is how they constantly trained. How many people think about moving to cover but just stand there unprotected? You must train your mind and your muscle memory until it becomes reflex to up your survival potential. I am sure no gunslinger but I have heard the sonic crack as a bullet passed by my head before the sound of the report reached me on more than one occasion. I by the grace of God and the fact I have been able to function under that stress am still alive.
    I don't know much I was just a street cop for decades.

    Cops were taught to police their brass into the 1970's. By the late 1970's that ended. The Newhall incident brought that to light and was a watershed for LE training. The winning fighter keeps his head, luck will only carry you so long.
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    Ex Member Array Two Bears's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    I don't know much I was just a street cop for decades.

    Cops were taught to police their brass into the 1970's. By the late 1970's that ended. The Newhall incident brought that to light and was a watershed for LE training. The winning fighter keeps his head, luck will only carry you so long.
    All true, that is why one should always keep learning. I used to get my #ss chewed on for talking to all the combat experienced E-6s I could from the Army and Marines on Okinawa to learn all I could from them. You see the USA was sending combat units into Vietnam that were stationed on Okinawa. One battalion in country on temporary assignment one on ready reserve and one refitting and recuperating from their time in country. That way they did not have to be counted as troops assigned to "permanent" duty in Vietnam. When I was part of the "Drug Suppression Unit" our huts were on the CAMP KUE HOSPITAL, OKINAWA grounds so I had to pull duty officer at the hospital when "my turn" came around. There were men that died from combat in Vietnam but their paperwork said "training accident", "car accident" so I refused to sign them when I was duty officer which made quite a few people mad. I told them if they did not like it Court Martial me for refusing to sign falsified government documents. I KNEW to read everything I signed my name to BEFORE signing! It saved me and got some other officers into trouble but like I told them. If someone comes investigating my actual signature is NOT going to be on any falsified documents. You might sign my name to them but then I can prove I did not sign them.

    I found quite a few things strange in the Army. Like when I became the parole officer. When an E-5 and I had to go to the arms room and I was issued a Colt 1911 .45 with empty magazines. I asked the armorer, "what no ammo" and said no LT your not allowed any ammunition. He said you are required to wear a sidearm but the Army is afraid you young lieutenants might accidentally shoot a civilian during a robbery so your not allowed any ammo. If anyone attempts to rob you you are just to give them the money. I said has it occurred to any of the upper echelon idiots that any robbers will simply shoot the guy wearing the gun first without asking any questions? He just shrugged his shoulders and said good luck. There is the right way, the wrong way, and the Army's way to do things. Lieutenants are expendable. They used to say, what is the difference between a Lieutenant and a private? The answer is the Lieutenant has to sign for everything!
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    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Bears View Post
    All true, that is why one should always keep learning. I used to get my #ss chewed on for talking to all the combat experienced E-6s I could from the Army and Marines on Okinawa to learn all I could from them. You see the USA was sending combat units into Vietnam that were stationed on Okinawa. One battalion in country on temporary assignment one on ready reserve and one refitting and recuperating from their time in country. That way they did not have to be counted as troops assigned to "permanent" duty in Vietnam. When I was part of the "Drug Suppression Unit" our huts were on the CAMP KUE HOSPITAL, OKINAWA grounds so I had to pull duty officer at the hospital when "my turn" came around. There were men that died from combat in Vietnam but their paperwork said "training accident", "car accident" so I refused to sign them when I was duty officer which made quite a few people mad. I told them if they did not like it Court Martial me for refusing to sign falsified government documents. I KNEW to read everything I signed my name to BEFORE signing! It saved me and got some other officers into trouble but like I told them. If someone comes investigating my actual signature is NOT going to be on any falsified documents. You might sign my name to them but then I can prove I did not sign them.

    I found quite a few things strange in the Army. Like when I became the parole officer. When an E-5 and I had to go to the arms room and I was issued a Colt 1911 .45 with empty magazines. I asked the armorer, "what no ammo" and said no LT your not allowed any ammunition. He said you are required to wear a sidearm but the Army is afraid you young lieutenants might accidentally shoot a civilian during a robbery so your not allowed any ammo. If anyone attempts to rob you you are just to give them the money. I said has it occurred to any of the upper echelon idiots that any robbers will simply shoot the guy wearing the gun first without asking any questions? He just shrugged his shoulders and said good luck. There is the right way, the wrong way, and the Army's way to do things. Lieutenants are expendable. They used to say, what is the difference between a Lieutenant and a private? The answer is the Lieutenant has to sign for everything!
    Well, I was an enlisted MP and carried a loaded 1911. Had to bail more than one LT out of trouble.
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  16. #15
    Senior Member Array Cypher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    Cops were taught to police their brass into the 1970's. By the late 1970's that ended. The Newhall incident brought that to light and was a watershed for LE training.
    I've read a couple reports that say that that didn't actually happen. Both reports referenced one of the cops running out of ammunition and being caught trying to reload his revolver without a speed loader and being shot to death. Both report said that somehow morphed into they caught the guy picking up his brass and he was found with a Pocketful of brass on his body.

    I'm not claiming to know for sure though because all I have is the secondhand reports to read

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