Sanford, FL Teen Shot By CHL Holder - Page 4

Sanford, FL Teen Shot By CHL Holder

This is a discussion on Sanford, FL Teen Shot By CHL Holder within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by gottabkiddin That statement there begs for clarification and corroborating facts to back it up.. Just sayin... Never let any facts get in ...

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Thread: Sanford, FL Teen Shot By CHL Holder

  1. #46
    Distinguished Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottabkiddin View Post
    That statement there begs for clarification and corroborating facts to back it up.. Just sayin...
    Never let any facts get in the way of shoehorning your theory into fitting.

  2. #47
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    Unfortunately we'll never know the real story. What we''ll hear is what the press wants us to know. That is not necessarily the truth, it's what sells papers and boosts ratings.
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  3. #48
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    I see a lot of "jumping to conclusions" in here, unsupported by anything in the articles.

    It is not unusual at all for the News to make the BG the victim in many situations, especially if the other person is in a group that they have an agenda against (gun owners).

    There is not enough about what happen to conclude anything, other than the teen was on top of Zimmerman beating him, per a witness. And, that no arrest had been made.

    If they felt what some are saying here were true and the facts supported it, he would not be sitting at home with no arrests made in the case.
    rolyat63 likes this.
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  5. #49
    New Member Array Gambler99's Avatar
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    Like most on here, I have my CWP and often carry concealed. However, I personally know George. This story makes my stomach turn on many levels.

    I worked with George for two years, and don't know the circumstances of every detail (nor have I spoken with George since the incident). However, George is a GREAT, GREAT person. Very nice, very calm, very respectful...just a great guy. It makes me sick to think of what George is going through, as well as, what the deceased young man's family is going through.

    We all carry for many reasons, some the same, some different. I know that I am prepared to do what's needed if I ever had to...but I also hope and pray that I'm never in that situation.

    The latest local story today says that there seems to be more information coming forward that supports George's side of the case, and like others have said, I have to imgine that the authorities have legitimate reasons why no charges have been pressed.

    Knowing George, it's just hard to believe that he was the aggressor.

  6. #50
    VIP Member Array Yoda's Avatar
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    I like to think of my fellow concealed carriers as being of a similar personality as my own and more responsible than the average public. Whenever I read or hear of a concealed carrier doing a shoot and being charged; I always like to try to find as much information as I can to determine for myself whether it was justified. Sometimes it is very hard with only the media reports available.

    But we are all human. Similar to volunteer firefighters every now and then you'll get one that's an arsonist.


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  7. #51
    VIP Member Array Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theskunk View Post
    Zimmerman is a 28 yr old that lives with his parents. He confronted/jumped the black kid.
    Please reveal your sources


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  8. #52
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Here is my take with a lot of assumptions,Sounds to me that Zimmerman wants to be a "Cop" (enrolled in Criminal Justice).He signed up for Neighborhood watch,He let the position go to his head and got the "Superman" syndrome.Sees a Black kid walking down the street he hasn't seen before,Calls 911 and they tell him they will handle it,he decides now he has backup coming he will detain the guy and find out what he is doing,something occurs that causes the situation to escalate and kid gets shot.
    Kid had the right to be where he was,Zimmerman escalated the situation and when he was getting his ass whooped pulled his gun and shot the kid.
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  9. #53
    VIP Member Array Yoda's Avatar
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    I think gambler99 will be our best source for intel on this.


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  10. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambler99 View Post
    Like most on here, I have my CWP and often carry concealed. However, I personally know George. This story makes my stomach turn on many levels.

    I worked with George for two years, and don't know the circumstances of every detail (nor have I spoken with George since the incident). However, George is a GREAT, GREAT person. Very nice, very calm, very respectful...just a great guy. It makes me sick to think of what George is going through, as well as, what the deceased young man's family is going through.

    We all carry for many reasons, some the same, some different. I know that I am prepared to do what's needed if I ever had to...but I also hope and pray that I'm never in that situation.

    The latest local story today says that there seems to be more information coming forward that supports George's side of the case, and like others have said, I have to imgine that the authorities have legitimate reasons why no charges have been pressed.

    Knowing George, it's just hard to believe that he was the aggressor.
    It is really hard to see how this one could have gotten out of hand given what you say of his calm personality.

    Has anything been written, rumored (reasonably), or otherwise said about police finding any weapon on the dead young man?

    Sometimes appearances can mislead both ways. The dead kid might have appeared bad and not been, your friend may have given no indication of being a Ninja. And it goes 180 as well. Something could have happened entirely not your friend's fault.

    Hope it all works out for your friend, though it doesn't sound really good for him from this distance.
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  11. #55
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    Aside from what I have read in the paper, I really don't know too many details. The Orlando paper states:

    He saw the teen and called police. Two minutes later, 17-year-old Trayvon was on the ground, dying from a single gunshot wound. Police found Zimmerman standing nearby, a gun in his waistband and blood seeping from injuries to his nose and the back of his head...

    ...Both sides agree that Trayvon and Zimmerman scuffled before the shooting, and there is evidence to corroborate Zimmerman's self defense claims, the chief said.

    When police arrived, an officer overheard Zimmerman complain, "'I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me,'" according to an incident report released Thursday. It also noted that, the back of Zimmerman's shirt was wet and had grass clippings on it, as if he'd been on his back on the ground.

    On one recorded 911 call, the police chief said, "You can hear the struggle and the gunshot."


    I did hear from someone today that there are witness that were nearby and heard George screaming. Apparently he was getting beat pretty bad.

    I'm trying to stay open minded. Don't get me wrong, I really like George...and would be a character witness for him in a heartbeat...but, laws are laws, and carrying a gun comes with GREAT responsibility. My history with George leads me to THINK that he wouldn't be one to start a confrontation. But, I can also see what dukalmigty is saying in his post. Did George play a little bit more of a cop role than he should have...maybe...maybe not. If he was...did he deserve a severe beating???

    Was it a case that non-lethal methods could have been used? Maybe...maybe not. And honestly, it's something I've asked myself before. "What if someone jumps me at night and there beating the snot out of me. At what point, in the heat of the moment, when I'm getting beaten, is it right to discharge my weapon?" And keep in mind, there's a difference between what a textbook states and what would be going through your mind as you think your getting beaten to death. Do you let them hit you a few more times and risk permenant damage or death because you don't want to use deadly force...or do you use deadly force and risk being charged.

    I'm sure a lot has been written on that on this forum, but we do know that George was being beaten. We do know that he was getting the worst of it. What we don't know is what caused him to take the beating. That's the million dollar question...and I'm sure what the authorities are working to determine.

    One life was lost already. No matter what, George's life will change from that moment on. I just hope that his life isn't "ruined" because of this.

  12. #56
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    Like everyone else I also have an opinion. Not so much based on good information... but based on my own experiences, and prejudices. First off... wearing a hoodie is no indication of criminal intent. Especially a white one (hoodie not person). All kids express their alter ego's on social networks... Much like some of us do here. It seems the kid was physically small. I dont know how much bigger or smaller the neighborhood watch guy was.

    So the neighborhood watch guy see's someone he considers suspicious. IMO Nothing wrong with that. He calls the police... Nothing wrong with that. The police instruct him to not confront, and that they would handle it... Textbook. The following is my personal CWAG of what happened. Neighborhood watch guy continues to keep the kid under observation as he was trained to. Kid who knows that he's totally innocent, and totally legit takes exception to this and makes unpleasent comments. Neighborhood watch guy retorts and a ******* match begins. Neighborhood watch guy is thinking "I'm in the right here I dont have to take this crap. Kid is thinking "I am totally in the right here...I dont have to take this crap" The confrontation escalates and neighborhood watch guy is confident enough to get out of his car and confront this kid. Kid knows he's beaten up guys bigger than himself before and dont back down. Maybe a shoving match and the kid is better at fisticuffs than Neighborhood watch guy, and bests him... to the point of beating the tar out of him. Neighborhood watch guy realize this kid may well kill him with his fists. Watch guy pulls gun and fires into the kid....

    Anyway... tragic for the kids family... and also not good for the neighborhood watch guy... but as the saying go's better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6. Well he gets his trail. The Kid got the 6. So who was wrong? Or who was most wrong.

    BTW The police dont get to decide on the self defense issue in a case this complicated. That would be up to the states attorney, a grand jury or a coroners jury. You could easily change race between victim and shooter... I wouldnt make any difference. IMO Race has very little if anything at all to do with it.
    sgb and MattInFla like this.

  13. #57
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    So let me get this straight. I can follow someone in my car, call 911 and tell them I see a suspicious person in the neighborhood, ignore the 911 operator and decide to confront the person. The confrontation doesn't go so well, because now I went from following you in my car, to confronting you face to face. We get in a scuffle and I shoot you.

    Defending yourself is not going out of your way to follow and confront them. This kid had no idea who was following him. Why did Zimmerman get out of the car? To arrest the kid? What could he possibly do by getting out of his car? What do you think Trayvon is thinking as he is being followed?

    The fact that he was getting beat up has nothing to do with defending himself. He was the instigator. Trayvon would have been the more likely person to feel threatened by being followed and then confronted by a stranger. It is no wonder Zimerman was getting beaten up.

    There is no justification for this kid being shot.
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  14. #58
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    Report said this happened in "gated community." Do people have to identify themselves to get into a gated community?

    Quote from first link in initial post, "SANFORD, Fla. - A man who was shot dead inside a gated community in Sanford had an encounter with a neighborhood watch member, police said on Wednesday..."

  15. #59
    VIP Member Array Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post
    So let me get this straight. I can follow someone in my car, call 911 and tell them I see a suspicious person in the neighborhood, ignore the 911 operator and decide to confront the person. The confrontation doesn't go so well, because now I went from following you in my car, to confronting you face to face. We get in a scuffle and I shoot you.

    Defending yourself is not going out of your way to follow and confront them. This kid had no idea who was following him. Why did Zimmerman get out of the car? To arrest the kid? What could he possibly do by getting out of his car? What do you think Trayvon is thinking as he is being followed?

    The fact that he was getting beat up has nothing to do with defending himself. He was the instigator. Trayvon would have been the more likely person to feel threatened by being followed and then confronted by a stranger. It is no wonder Zimerman was getting beaten up.

    There is no justification for this kid being shot.
    Where are you getting your information? Please post the link.


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  16. #60
    Ex Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    I have a funny feeling this guy will not be charged or if so not really bad. If the witness saw just the scuffle and not what led up to it then it becomes the living guys word against the dead kid and the 911 tapes. Whether he should have left the vehicle or not might not matter in the eyes of a sympathetic jury for him. My understanding of FL law which is basicaly my googling skills says that by exiting his vehicle a lone is not a crime. My understanding is he is free to leave his vehicle (unless told not to by the 911 operator). At this point there is no confrontation so he has no duty to retreat. Asking the kid what he is doing would not IMO in the eyes of a jury be sufficient to say he was an instigator. Now, what happens we do not know. If there was a scuffle he can put enough doubt in a juries minds that he feared for his life since the kid was on top of him. Just my guess how it will pan out.

    Now what I think happened is he decided to be a caped crusader. He saw the kid maybe getting out of his sight or whatever. He got out of his vehicle, got into a verbal exchange with the kid, got in over his head and got scared and shot him. He should be in jail in my scenario. Nope, don;t have any facts or a link. Just my opinion I am expressing on this forum.

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