Falsely charged: Good guy Paul Lathrop cleared, but a lesson for concealed carriers.. - Page 7

Falsely charged: Good guy Paul Lathrop cleared, but a lesson for concealed carriers..

This is a discussion on Falsely charged: Good guy Paul Lathrop cleared, but a lesson for concealed carriers.. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; We are supposed to be taught, among many other things as CC'ers, to de-escalate almost to a fault. To that end, de-escalation in this case ...

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Thread: Falsely charged: Good guy Paul Lathrop cleared, but a lesson for concealed carriers..

  1. #91
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    We are supposed to be taught, among many other things as CC'ers, to de-escalate almost to a fault.

    To that end, de-escalation in this case would have looked something along these lines-

    "I'm so sorry, sir, you're right- we're too close. Totally my fault. Please let me make it up to you by bringing you inside and allowing me to buy you a drink/coffee/soda/etc."

    IOW, go out of your way to de-escalate. If you're offered a make-up, it makes it harder to continue to rage and makes you look like even more of a jerk in addition to being the continued aggressor.

    Mr. Lathrop failed in this regard to miserable excess. I am glad justice eventually prevailed, but he made many mistakes which could have had much more dire consequences.
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  2. #92
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    Perfect example of why we need to stop saying, "a good shoot is a good shoot".

    No he didn't pull the trigger but even innocent people spend time in jail without ever being found guilty.


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  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by firefighterguy View Post
    Perfect example of why we need to stop saying, "a good shoot is a good shoot".

    No he didn't pull the trigger but even innocent people spend time in jail without ever being found guilty.


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    You are quite right, of course. How simplistic, "a good shoot is a good shoot." It actually sounds pathetically nave, if not ignorant. Haven't we seen enough examples of late that demonstrate that one man's "good shoot" is another man's assassination or "did he really have to shoot?" How about, "Couldn't he have just shot him in the leg?"

    Don't ever fool yourself into believing that just because you think its a good shoot that it will be seen that way; don't ever lull yourself in the false hope that the system will get it right. There are more people than you'll ever know determining your fate and there's usually one or two that just love to ruin someone's life. As a detective I've found myself too often to mention in the politically incorrect position of lobbying for someone I know is innocent imploring the state attorney not to charge. Some are stubborn. And they find me on the witness stand testifying for the defense.

    I've seen way too many innocent people go away for something they just didn't have a good enough lawyer to prove they didn't do it; and guilty people who've had stellar representation turn on heel and skip right out of the courtroom swinging their walking stick and a feather in their cap.
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  5. #94
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    It just takes one trip through ones states justice system, to make one want to really think about drawing a firearm.
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  6. #95
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    Not only did Paul not pull the trigger, he never drew his gun. In fact he never even put his gun in his hand. He also asked the other guy to "stop" before telling him he had a gun. We can argue about whether there wasn't enough de-escalation and maybe there wasn't. But remember, Paul never touched his gun.

    Yet, his accuser says he waived a large revolver at him (Paul carries a Glock 22) and threatened his life. Totally false.

    Why is there more discussion about de-escalation than there is about false accusations and an over zealous, anti gun liberal prosecutor who should have known better, but had an agenda to make an example out of a concealed carrier?
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  7. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandgunWorld View Post
    Not only did Paul not pull the trigger, he never drew his gun. In fact he never even put his gun in his hand. He also asked the other guy to "stop" before telling him he had a gun. We can argue about whether there wasn't enough de-escalation and maybe there wasn't. But remember, Paul never touched his gun.

    Yet, his accuser says he waived a large revolver at him (Paul carries a Glock 22) and threatened his life. Totally false.

    Why is there more discussion about de-escalation than there is about false accusations and an over zealous, anti gun liberal prosecutor who should have known better, but had an agenda to make an example out of a concealed carrier?
    Because the failure of the first one led directly to the second one?
    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill

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  8. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Because the failure of the first one led directly to the second one?
    Failure to de-escalate, leads a person to completely fabricate an accusation, which proved on video to be totally false? That's like saying because there is a McDonalds on my way to work, they make me stop there and eat every day, now I'm fat.
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  9. #98
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    Your point is well taken. How about this: is Paul's accuser being prosecuted for making a false police report? Perjury?

    I think the answer lies in the fact that we're savvy enough here to realize that there are scant perjury prosecutions to be found and false accusers rarely get punished for the damage they do to a person they've set up with a lie. So, what we do is try to see where this was avoidable from our perspective - from the perspective of the gun carrier - in other words, where did Paul (we here, in other words) go wrong? We're not blaming Paul. We know the proof is irrefutable, the evidence purely exculpatory. But we must find that "teaching moment" where we can learn from Paul.
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  10. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandgunWorld View Post
    Why is there more discussion about de-escalation than there is about false accusations and an over zealous, anti gun liberal prosecutor who should have known better, but had an agenda to make an example out of a concealed carrier?
    Because with de-escalation, this whole problem would not exsist. What Paul did was ESCALATION! What do you think would have happened if he hadn't yelled, I have a gun? The other guy jumps in the truck and beats them both to death? Not hardly. Two aginst one in an argument and you have to say you have a gun? I can't understand why you can't see, Paul caused his own problem. Was the guy a moron, yep, but Paul asked for it by yelling I have a gun.

    If I was in an argument and someone threatened me with deadly force and had the means to back it up, I would press charges also. Especially if I was unarmed.
    "Now go ahead and say something stupid!"

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  11. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFranklin View Post
    Your point is well taken. How about this: is Paul's accuser being prosecuted for making a false police report? Perjury?
    The only thing that was false was he said he saw the gun. Paul threatened him with a gun and Paul had a gun. I hardly think the other guy will get in any trouble at all. I would have been pissed also.
    "Now go ahead and say something stupid!"

    Be polite, be professional but have a plan to kill everyone that you meet. General James "Mad Dog" Mattis USMC

    A .380 in your pocket is better than a 45 in your truck.

  12. #101
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    Agreed. I think the teachable parts of this incident are:

    1. Always take the path of de-escalation as much as possible.
    2. Be prepared for it not to work.
    3. Realize that there are anti-gun zealots who wish to make an example of you even if you're right.

    At this point, I don't know if Paul plans a civil lawsuit against his false accuser or not. We don't know all of the dynamics of the case to make a determination. Ultimately that's up to Paul and his attorney. His accuser probably is guilty of perjury. In fact, that's probably the main reason the charges were dropped.

    But just because somebody says something to me that pisses me off (like saying he has a gun) doesn't give me the right to falsely accuse him of a felony. That point is largely ignored in this thread.
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  13. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckydog View Post
    The only thing that was false was he said he saw the gun. Paul threatened him with a gun and Paul had a gun. I hardly think the other guy will get in any trouble at all. I would have been pissed also.

    Paul never touched is gun. So if I said that to you, would you ask for me to be charged with a felony?
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  14. #103
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    Okay. But saying you have a gun is not a crime. Is the "victim" to be given immunity because only 1/3 of his tale was perjured; the 1/3 that created a felony of whole cloth. Paul's false accuser should be charged (never happen) and then a plea deal made to include restitution to Paul for expenses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HandgunWorld View Post
    Failure to de-escalate, leads a person to completely fabricate an accusation, which proved on video to be totally false? That's like saying because there is a McDonalds on my way to work, they make me stop there and eat every day, now I'm fat.
    No, that's like saying that if there is an already off the hook outraged guy in your face, you shouldn't give him the info he will use to really hang you out to dry.
    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill

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  16. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    No, that's like saying that if there is an already off the hook outraged guy in your face, you shouldn't give him the info he will use to really hang you out to dry.
    Therein lies the lesson for us all.

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