Going To Observe A Self Defense Trial - Page 3

Going To Observe A Self Defense Trial

This is a discussion on Going To Observe A Self Defense Trial within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by bmcgilvray This could be a instructive discussion here on the Forum as we learn more about it. Man charged with attempted murder ...

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Thread: Going To Observe A Self Defense Trial

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    From the second linked story: "Tejeda said Camaraza assaulted Cullen and pulled him out of his car. He said Cullen shot the man in self-defense."

    This could indeed be an informative case. If Cullen was engaging in a driving issue with Camaraza before allegedly being pulled from his car and shooting Camaraza, what degree of culpability does he have for this escalating to a shooting in (allegedly) self defense?

    What level of being a jerk while driving would later preclude a claim of self defense: What if someone merely honked or flashed lights at someone who cut them off? Tailgating? One-finger messaging? Brake checking? Etc...

    Yes, it sounds like two hot heads, but possibly informative nonetheless.
    bmcgilvray likes this.
    Ride hard, shoot straight, always speak the truth

  2. #32
    Senior Member Array raytracer's Avatar
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    From the Missouri Revised statutes:
    *563.031. Use of force in defense of persons. Ė 1. A person may, subject to the provisions of subsection 2 of this section, use physical force upon another person when and to the extent he or she reasonably believes such force to be necessary to defend himself or herself or a third person from what he or she reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful force by such other person, unless:

      (1) The actor was the initial aggressor; except that in such case his or her use of force is nevertheless justifiable provided:

      (a) He or she has withdrawn from the encounter and effectively communicated such withdrawal to such other person but the latter persists in continuing the incident by the use or threatened use of unlawful force; or
    Under the letter of the law, you can start a shouting match, escalate it through shoving and hitting, and still have an affirmative defense for lethal force after you try and back down.

    Good luck selling it to a jury, but it's there on the books.
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  3. #33
    Member Array alsaqr's Avatar
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    Takes two to play the stupid "road rage" game. When one driver refuses to play there is usually no confrontation.
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  5. #34
    Ex Member Array Dougb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alsaqr View Post
    Takes two to play the stupid "road rage" game. When one driver refuses to play there is usually no confrontation.
    Google "Russian road rage". Takes two fighters to make a fight. Takes one fighter to make a beat down. You have to know how much you are willing to absorb before you need to defend yourself, and one or two blows to the head remove your ability to respond. Clubs come out, tools, golfing equipment, guns, kicks to heads, knives. If you try to ignore, windows get ripped out, windshields get smashed, and worst of all, wives get into it.

    Canadians aren't much better, and US drivers can be really bad.
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  6. #35
    Member Array DonPablo_VA's Avatar
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    Looks like he has a decent lawyer to get bail down to $100k on an attempted murder 2 charge. It will be interesting if there were any witnesses and the defense's tact of trying to prove imminent deadly threat.
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  7. #36
    VIP Member Array Fizban's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alsaqr View Post
    Takes two to play the stupid "road rage" game. When one driver refuses to play there is usually no confrontation.
    usually... the confrontation was decided on before the primary aggressor ever got out of the car. Mutual participation is not a required elements to many [attacks].. that's why they call it an attack.
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  8. #37
    VIP Member Array Struckat's Avatar
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    If someone is road raging at you and you stop your car to try to talk or fight, or anything in between, you have failed the de escalation test.

    This guy will fry.
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  9. #38
    Member Array alsaqr's Avatar
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    Few years ago i was driving about 35 mph in a 35 mph zone. Some idiot in a pickup passed me doing at least 65 mph. The idiot threw me the finger and glared. He cut me off and over corrected in the curve, hit the pond dam 20 feet off the road, did a flip and landed upside down 30 feet into the water. i did not stop or call 911. The truck was gone a few days later.

  10. #39
    Member Array todd1911's Avatar
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    I strongly urge any CCL holder if you get a chance, go and watch a trial, where one is claiming self defense. As you sit there and take in what all is happening, I want you to imagine that you are the one up there being accused, then realize how limited you will have on what to say/do. In a snap of a finger, a true self defense shoot can become manslaughter or worse. I am always amazed at how little armed citizen understand how and what will happen, if using rescue equipment. I also urge you to right down the case and time you was there, this is good way of showing that you are caring citizen in your responsibility.
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  11. #40
    Member Array mrtimm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alsaqr View Post
    Few years ago i was driving about 35 mph in a 35 mph zone. Some idiot in a pickup passed me doing at least 65 mph. The idiot threw me the finger and glared. He cut me off and over corrected in the curve, hit the pond dam 20 feet off the road, did a flip and landed upside down 30 feet into the water. i did not stop or call 911. The truck was gone a few days later.
    So you left a human being in a potentially deadly situation and didn't even call 911 because he flipped you off and glared at you? Didn't even call 911?

    *shudders*

  12. #41
    New Member Array rstolten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alsaqr View Post
    Few years ago i was driving about 35 mph in a 35 mph zone. Some idiot in a pickup passed me doing at least 65 mph. The idiot threw me the finger and glared. He cut me off and over corrected in the curve, hit the pond dam 20 feet off the road, did a flip and landed upside down 30 feet into the water. i did not stop or call 911. The truck was gone a few days later.

    You are/were willing to let somebody die over giving you the finger? You have no business being on the road yourself, let alone carrying a loaded firearm around.
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  13. #42
    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alsaqr View Post
    Few years ago i was driving about 35 mph in a 35 mph zone. Some idiot in a pickup passed me doing at least 65 mph. The idiot threw me the finger and glared. He cut me off and over corrected in the curve, hit the pond dam 20 feet off the road, did a flip and landed upside down 30 feet into the water. i did not stop or call 911. The truck was gone a few days later.
    Itís amazing what some people admit to on the Ďnet, and that others even ďlikeĒ it.
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  14. #43
    VIP Member Array scottync's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubblehead751 View Post
    I donít even look at other drivers on the road and I definitely donít use my horn unless I have to. Wish I could convince the rest of my family to do the same. Thankfully we donít get into the city too often.
    I may use my horn but so far not my gun. I'm pretty sure I ain't gonna blast another driver over lousy driving.
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  15. #44
    Senior Member Array GreenMan0352's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alsaqr View Post
    Few years ago i was driving about 35 mph in a 35 mph zone. Some idiot in a pickup passed me doing at least 65 mph. The idiot threw me the finger and glared. He cut me off and over corrected in the curve, hit the pond dam 20 feet off the road, did a flip and landed upside down 30 feet into the water. i did not stop or call 911. The truck was gone a few days later.
    Disregard all the internet saints giving you crap over this post. Remember itís just a forum. In the heat of the moment Iíve done worse so no worries friend.


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  16. #45
    Member Array mrtimm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenMan0352 View Post
    Disregard all the internet saints giving you crap over this post. Remember itís just a forum. In the heat of the moment Iíve done worse so no worries friend.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Worse? Do tell. Please.

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