I'm worried about our rights and our families. - Page 5

I'm worried about our rights and our families.

This is a discussion on I'm worried about our rights and our families. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by WildRose You have no political influence or power as a single individual. The NRA and other lobbying groups wield tremendous power because ...

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  1. #61
    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
    You have no political influence or power as a single individual.

    The NRA and other lobbying groups wield tremendous power because of the numbers behind them and the dollars they have to spend defending our rights.
    I guess you misunderstood the connection I made to the 2nd Amendment. The 2nd is the only defense against tyranny. When government begins to rip up the Constitution, in a Constitutional Republic, that is tyranny. I took an oath to defend the Constitution, as have many others.

    I have nothing against the NRA, but they are not the final, last resort. The 2nd Amendment is. It goes without saying that I pray daily we never come to that point.

    @Havok ...one of the sad truths I have learned over the decades is that there are very few points of rationality upon which anyone actually agrees.

    I quoted the words of an astronaut who said, If youre going to strap a million pounds of dynamite to your backside and let someone light the fuse, youd better have a strong faith. Faith or no, Im not sure anyone like that is rational - at least not to me.
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  2. #62
    Distinguished Member Array SOS24's Avatar
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    I am in the same boat with your fears. I honestly think that pro-2A politicians are not going to be able to hold back the ever increasing gun control lobby much longer, before at least some measures start to be enacted or worse yet the gun control politicians start winning seats and we completely lose.

    I am especially concerned living in Virginia where the Democrats keep winning seats and even some Republicans are caving. There were several gun control bills introduced this year. Most fortunately were defeated in committee but I fear it is only time.

  3. #63
    Distinguished Member Array Scouse's Avatar
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    I live in Florida, carry a Glock 19 every day. I would train any teacher, for free, who would do armed security duties in his school.

    I did that for 25 years professionally.

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  5. #64
    Ex Member Array WildRose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    I guess you misunderstood the connection I made to the 2nd Amendment. The 2nd is the only defense against tyranny. When government begins to rip up the Constitution, in a Constitutional Republic, that is tyranny. I took an oath to defend the Constitution, as have many others.

    I have nothing against the NRA, but they are not the final, last resort. The 2nd Amendment is. It goes without saying that I pray daily we never come to that point.

    @Havok ...one of the sad truths I have learned over the decades is that there are very few points of rationality upon which anyone actually agrees.

    I quoted the words of an astronaut who said, If youre going to strap a million pounds of dynamite to your backside and let someone light the fuse, youd better have a strong faith. Faith or no, Im not sure anyone like that is rational - at least not to me.
    No, I think I understood it, at least as you wrote it just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    Well, that is really not true. I am standing in their way, and I would bet the farm I'm not alone.

    The Constitution protects us from the majority and the 2nd Amendment allows us to protect the Constitution.
    The 2nd Amendment stands between us and the gun grabbers but as individuals we are no impediment to their agenda other than our ability to influence the few people around us that we can discuss it with.

    In reality the 2nd Amendment is never more than a couple of votes on the SCOTUS from extinction.

    As individuals we have no real political influence or power but when the interests of millions of us are represented by the NRA and 2nd Amendment foundation suddenly we are a force with immense political power and influence.

    Without such groups representing us and fighting the good fight in the courts year after year our 2nd Amendment rights would have been reduced to nothing but a heavily restricted privilege decades ago.
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  6. #65
    Distinguished Member Array CAS_Shooter's Avatar
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    In reality the 2nd Amendment is never more than a couple of votes on the SCOTUS from extinction.
    Someone gets it. 2A is not going to be radically changed by congress; t will live and die with SCOTUS. Congress can make all manner of gun control laws, but if SCOUTS is a conservative majority, they will be overturned. However, if SCOTUS has a liberal majority, that will turn the tide of 2A far, far more than any congress could do. Read the response from the dissenting votes from the Heller case. If they had one more vote on their side, everything we know about current 2A interpretation would be standing on its head.

    Read the Heller decision dissenting opinion. Congress does not worry me.

  7. #66
    Member Array eb2007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Organtis View Post
    In light of the recent shooting. I am unsure how long we can continue without drastic changes and I don't know what the future looks like.

    In no particular order.

    1. I want the right to protect my family. Reducing guns will not reduce criminal guns without reducing law abiding citizens guns as well.

    2. There is a fine line between a disturbed youth and a killer.

    3. An AR15 makes a great home defense weapon and a deadly criminal tool as well. My Glock 23 will be ineffective when the home invader has assault rifles.

    4. I feel like even a teacher with a Glock 43 would still be ineffective as well.

    5. If fighting the battle for mental health the only front?

    6. I think we will find that the AR15 was obtained legally by a relative or the shooter did not have an official record to prevent access to such arms.

    Give me hope. I am a veteran who has lived my whole life for the good guys.
    Your family has more of a chance of dying in a vehicle accident..... or a house fire

  8. #67
    Member Array frgood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Organtis View Post
    In light of the recent shooting. I am unsure how long we can continue without drastic changes and I don't know what the future looks like.

    In no particular order.

    1. I want the right to protect my family. Reducing guns will not reduce criminal guns without reducing law abiding citizens guns as well.

    2. There is a fine line between a disturbed youth and a killer.

    3. An AR15 makes a great home defense weapon and a deadly criminal tool as well. My Glock 23 will be ineffective when the home invader has assault rifles.

    4. I feel like even a teacher with a Glock 43 would still be ineffective as well.

    5. If fighting the battle for mental health the only front?

    6. I think we will find that the AR15 was obtained legally by a relative or the shooter did not have an official record to prevent access to such arms.

    Give me hope. I am a veteran who has lived my whole life for the good guys.
    I have not read the replies, yet. But I must add: WHAT WILL IT TAKE FOR ALL CITIZENS TO START WITH TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT IS WITHIN THEIR LIFE CIRCLE?

    I am beyond frustration.
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  9. #68
    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    @WildRose ...no need to defend the NRA and others from me. I fully support them.

    I would, however, question the notion that if the 2nd Amendment, or any other in the Bill of Rights, is deemed to not be a right by man and his institutions, how that affects the fact that those rights are not guaranteed by man's institutions.

    They are guaranteed to every person by their Creator. Nothing man can do can change that. And that idea, not the Congress, President, nor Supreme Court, is the real power of a Constitutional Republic. We the people are the bedrock.

    I don't believe any of us want to return to the state of freedom present in the late 16th century under a tyrant. Even though the 2nd Amendment had never been written, we stood against tyranny. And it was the presence of the freedom and rights guaranteed by our Creator that empowered his removal.

  10. #69
    Distinguished Member Array GpTom's Avatar
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    We need to fix the problem with all of these mass murders happening in GUN FREE ZONES. Doesn't it seem like they are leading us to slaughter when they establish gun free zones but then they don't protect us from the coward who takes advantage of these areas knowing that nobody can protect themselves in the gun free zone? How about passing a law that says that the people who establish these gun free zones have to provide armed guards or we will sue them for denying us the right to protect ourselves? That is how you reduce the mass murders in your schools and churches.

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb2007 View Post
    Your family has more of a chance of dying in a vehicle accident..... or a house fire
    Or almost anything else.

  12. #71
    Ex Member Array WildRose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb2007 View Post
    Your family has more of a chance of dying in a vehicle accident..... or a house fire
    Which is why smart people keep fire extinguishers and first aid kits in their car and seriously consider the model/manufacturer's safety record when making a purchase.

    It's also why we lock our doors, buy smoke alarms, keep kitchen fire extinguishers etc at home.

    It's also not entirely accurate. Being killed as the victim of a crime is the extreme. 36,000 homes will be hit by home invaders this year and hundreds of thousands of people will become the victims of a violent crime each year so the odds are actually much higher that you will be involved in such an incident than you are to be killed in a car wreck or home fire.

  13. #72
    Distinguished Member Array Scouse's Avatar
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    Being a Citizen since 2011, sponsored by my Son, and then 3 years later, my Wife became a Citizen, because she was married to me. Thats how legal immegration works, well one of the ways anyhow.

    I feel the second amendment, originally, was to protect the Citizens of this amazing Country from a maybe Tyrannical Government? So that being the case, any changes, attempted by any Government, to the 2nd, to muzzle citizens right of self-defense, is a non starter, agree?
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  14. #73
    Member Array eb2007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
    Which is why smart people keep fire extinguishers and first aid kits in their car and seriously consider the model/manufacturer's safety record when making a purchase.

    It's also why we lock our doors, buy smoke alarms, keep kitchen fire extinguishers etc at home.

    It's also not entirely accurate. Being killed as the victim of a crime is the extreme. 36,000 homes will be hit by home invaders this year and hundreds of thousands of people will become the victims of a violent crime each year so the odds are actually much higher that you will be involved in such an incident than you are to be killed in a car wreck or home fire.

    I don't understand your argument. So you are advocating gun control then? Because Cho used a handgun to kill 33 people. No Ar-15 needed. He killed more than Cruz, and more than Lanza did with lower capacity and lower powered cartridges. So ban them all? Is that what you are advocating with your arguement?

    Regardless of your argument statistically you still have a better chance of being seriously injured or killed in a vehicle or pedestrian accident regardless of it's safety record, first aid, kit, or fire extinguisher.

    We do not have a firearm problem.... we have a kids are coddled by parents and schools and over-medicated by doctors pushing big pharm for profit problem and when they face actual life failures they cannot process it and they snap. Fix the PC coddling and trophies for everyone, stop handing kids everything, say no, punish them, and let them experience failure at a young age and the core issues for these types of killings are addressed.

  15. #74
    Member Array oldbadger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    So you think killing 17 random people is something that a rationally thinking person would do?
    Of course not, but if you take killing to the very end, anyone who would kill anyone else is not rational. I must exempt self defense from this though.
    flintlock62 likes this.
    100% of home invasions occur......in someone's home.....usually without warning.

  16. #75
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    What worries me is the anti side is being a lot louder this time. They have come out of the woodwork in force. I think our side is gonna have our work cut out for us. We need to be just as loud calling out the anti gunners and fact checking them every chance we get. Also let our politicians know. Most importantly vote. We are just 1 bad election away from bad times.

    As far as the answer to preventing the next school shooting, I have no clue.
    msgt/ret and airslot like this.

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