Florida Stand your ground debate cranks up

Florida Stand your ground debate cranks up

This is a discussion on Florida Stand your ground debate cranks up within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I don't know how many here heard about or following the incident in Clearwater Florida. This is becoming a mess. Being its an election year, ...

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Thread: Florida Stand your ground debate cranks up

  1. #1
    Member Array Nifty's Avatar
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    Florida Stand your ground debate cranks up

    I don't know how many here heard about or following the incident in Clearwater Florida. This is becoming a mess. Being its an election year, I am starting to expect Floridians will see a changes to the existing law. Our govt already put a 3 day hold on long gun purchases after the school shooting.

    They won't be able to go after CC just yet, this isn't so much a cc issue, but there are plenty of anti-gun people that see this is another avenue to their ultimate goal and have started the noise and momentum for changing stand your ground.

    A lot of discussion on a local radio call in show this morning. What angers me is that the statistics are never used properly. One incident, one concealed carry person out of how many thousands of people, and the result is always the same. Prohibit, deny, revoke, limit, restrict, etc. etc. etc. Like that ever will do anything.

    If you are curious.... Google "Florida Stand your ground", check the news links, and prepare to cringe.
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    Why would statistics be used properly? The only relevant ones are the ones that fit their narrative. If they find some that donít, disregard and find new stats. What I think is most interesting though is that neither this, or the Zimmerman case were actually stand your ground cases. They are trying to do away with a law that has no relevance to the legality of either shooting. But it is a gun law and they are generating an emotional response which is apparently what matters.
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    Meh. We went through the same noise after the Trayvon Martin case. Boycotts if the law wasn't repealed, etc.

    The only change strengthened the law.
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    Ex Member Array CG11's Avatar
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    Pay attention to this, Floridians - don't let Florida fall to the liberals the way California has - you won't like it at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CG11 View Post
    Pay attention to this, Floridians - don't let Florida fall to the liberals the way California has - you won't like it at all.
    Floridians have very little control over yankee migration patterns leaving the utopias of the northeast states for God's waiting room. They tend to bring their political views with them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    Why would statistics be used properly? The only relevant ones are the ones that fit their narrative. If they find some that donít, disregard and find new stats. What I think is most interesting though is that neither this, or the Zimmerman case were actually stand your ground cases. They are trying to do away with a law that has no relevance to the legality of either shooting. But it is a gun law and they are generating an emotional response which is apparently what matters.
    I got into it with a snowflake bartender just after the Stoneman shooting in south Florida. Her point was with better gun control we could save x amount of lives....yada yada. I asked her how exactly. She threw a bunch of numbers at me that I really dont know where they came from. But her point was, this was for the kids - the children.

    So I asked her, if there was a bill that could be passed tomorrow, implemented by the weekend, that would guarantee more than 100 children's lives would be saved for the rest of the year, would she support it. She asked me if I was stupid and said of course, then she paused and wanted to know what it was. She then said 100 kids probably wouldn't die form mass shootings by years end and got irritated.

    I explained there is a law that could be passed, no one was taking away any constitutional right, she could still go about her business, but I would guarantee at least 100 children would be saved by years end (because of statistics). She reluctantly said yes, then I said we could just pass a bill that would prevent all SMS text messaging on all cell phones, distracted drivers wouldn't be killing people, and kids lives would be saved.

    Her response was priceless. "That's different!" she fired back. "Its not the same!" She got really agitated then attempted to argue there was already laws the prevented texting and driving.

    I told her there were already gun laws....what's the difference?

    She said people don't obey the texting laws. I told her people don't obey the law when the decide to shoot people, but are talking about s small fraction of a percent of nothing who do that. Meanwhile - seemingly everyone is texting away.

    She told me that the driving and texting were accidents, and that people intentionally used guns to kill others. But you want to save children I asked? Will the killers give up their guns? People in London are stabbed all the time too. Want to take the knives? What's the difference?

    This went around and around. She jumped through every anti-gun topic - even machine guns, but she couldn't argue the obvious. She finally got pissed and walked off. She has never brought it up again. :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nifty View Post
    I got into it with a snowflake bartender just after the Stoneman shooting in south Florida. Her point was with better gun control we could save x amount of lives....yada yada. I asked her how exactly. She threw a bunch of numbers at me that I really dont know where they came from. But her point was, this was for the kids - the children.

    So I asked her, if there was a bill that could be passed tomorrow, implemented by the weekend, that would guarantee more than 100 children's lives would be saved for the rest of the year, would she support it. She asked me if I was stupid and said of course, then she paused and wanted to know what it was. She then said 100 kids probably wouldn't die form mass shootings by years end and got irritated.

    I explained there is a law that could be passed, no one was taking away any constitutional right, she could still go about her business, but I would guarantee at least 100 children would be saved by years end (because of statistics). She reluctantly said yes, then I said we could just pass a bill that would prevent all SMS text messaging on all cell phones, distracted drivers wouldn't be killing people, and kids lives would be saved.

    Her response was priceless. "That's different!" she fired back. "Its not the same!" She got really agitated then attempted to argue there was already laws the prevented texting and driving.

    I told her there were already gun laws....what's the difference?

    She said people don't obey the texting laws. I told her people don't obey the law when the decide to shoot people, but are talking about s small fraction of a percent of nothing who do that. Meanwhile - seemingly everyone is texting away.

    She told me that the driving and texting were accidents, and that people intentionally used guns to kill others. But you want to save children I asked? Will the killers give up their guns? People in London are stabbed all the time too. Want to take the knives? What's the difference?

    This went around and around. She jumped through every anti-gun topic - even machine guns, but she couldn't argue the obvious. She finally got pissed and walked off. She has never brought it up again. :)
    Very cruel of you. What you did required thinking and use of logic and reason. Shame on you for attacking an unarmed person!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nifty View Post
    I got into it with a snowflake bartender just after the Stoneman shooting in south Florida.
    I hope you were already on your last serving from her before you made her go cry.
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    Hope FL doesn't become the next CA.

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    A few years back, I toured the Edinburgh Castle in Scotland. I happened onto a docent lecture on the evolution and use of swords (and related weapons).

    At one point, the speaker stood in front of me, holding a broadsword in hand, and asked me (and everyone) what would I do.

    "Turn and run" was the most common reply (mine as well).

    And the speakers reply? That is the very last thing to do. If I would try to turn and run, he would runneth me through every single time, as he has every advantage (including seeing all of my moves, and me seeing NONE of his).

    I never forgot that presentation. And, it applies to almost any predicament. The instant a potentially involved person turns, he or she immediately gives up any (any) positional advantage, and of course loses any knowledge of the attacker's position, plans, and pursuit. The attacker goes from tactical disadvantage (or something close to that) to full advantage, all because his intended prey turns away and feels a "duty to retreat".

    Stand your ground laws do nothing short of giving the crime victim a sometimes advantage, and the possibility of surviving.

    Duty to retreat takes away any advantage to the victim, and gives it squarely to the perps. Yes, the lefties know this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by spclopr8tr View Post
    Floridians have very little control over yankee migration patterns leaving the utopias of the northeast states for God's waiting room. They tend to bring their political views with them.
    It's not the Yankees who messed up California.
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    I moved from Maryland to Florida 2 years ago, one of the primary reasons is 2A to protect my wife and me. Should Florida remove ability to cc, there are several 2A friendly states nearby that I can move to.... and I will move.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EddieFL View Post
    I moved from Maryland to Florida 2 years ago, one of the primary reasons is 2A to protect my wife and me. Should Florida remove ability to cc, there are several 2A friendly states nearby that I can move to.... and I will move.
    I hope in the mean time you are trying to do something about it by being a member of https://www.floridacarry.org/
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    Quote Originally Posted by EddieFL View Post
    I moved from Maryland to Florida 2 years ago, one of the primary reasons is 2A to protect my wife and me. Should Florida remove ability to cc, there are several 2A friendly states nearby that I can move to.... and I will move.
    It won't.
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    VIP Member Array Gabill's Avatar
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    I don't think we have a problem becoming Ca. It's going to be a fight, but I think it holds up.
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