Another Carry at work question- got “outed” - Page 4

Another Carry at work question- got “outed”

This is a discussion on Another Carry at work question- got “outed” within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Psycho41 At first, my thought was that they could certainly fire him if found to be carrying after they told him he ...

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Thread: Another Carry at work question- got “outed”

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho41 View Post
    At first, my thought was that they could certainly fire him if found to be carrying after they told him he couldn't. But, you bring up a good point that made me think about it some more. If they did create a rule just for him, then I would agree with you. But, I don't think that is quite the case. Just because something isn't prohibited in the written policies doesn't mean an employer has to allow it. They can choose to address it on a case by case bases as it occurs - as long as they are consistent in how they address it. So, if they were to allow others to carry and terminate him for doing that, it would definitely be cause for a wrongful termination suit. But, if they were to tell the same thing to anyone else who was found to be carrying it could be kosher.
    Not if he is the only one who has been told he can't carry. There is no policy against it. So if you were to go ask other employees who have carry permits if they are allowed to carry, what do you think their answer would be? Im sure you would get different responses, ranging from "I dont know", to "theres no rule against it", etc. But "its prohibited" would not be one of them.
    We get the government we deserve.

  2. #47
    Senior Member Array pskys2's Avatar
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    Catch 22, you carry to protect yourself, if you use it to protect yourself you will get fired for insubordination.
    Maybe sue the corp to force them to hire armed security, since they won't allow you to protect yourself.

  3. #48
    Member Array sqlb3rn's Avatar
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    I like the suggestion of pocket carry, and I'll add work on saving up a 6 month nest egg in case you have to suddenly find a new job no matter the reason. When you have a little money in your pocket you have more choices.
    Stirling XD likes this.

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  5. #49
    Senior Member Array Psycho41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ep1953 View Post
    Bingo! I wondered if anyone else was going to mention this option.

    https://www.smartcarry.com
    I had not seen that carry option before.
    Are you smart carrying or are you just happy to see me?

  6. #50
    Senior Member Array Stirling XD's Avatar
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    You indicate you are from Kentucky and it is an at-will state. That means they don't need a reason to terminate your employment. You can try to play lawyer with what is written versus what is verbal, but if they find out you are carrying again and they want to fire you, they can. They don't have to give you a reason or an explanation. They can simply show you the door. Or they may have local LE do it since they know you have a firearm. You can try to sue them and you may get a settlement or they may fight it or the case may get tossed. In an at-will state, I would not give you good odds.

    Companies write policies because they have to. Many companies didn't have dress code policies until a few people started pushing the envelope. Now, I know of many companies that state in the employee handbook that employees are required to wear underwear.
    Has anyone tried turning the country off and then back on again?

  7. #51
    Senior Member Array Stirling XD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sqlb3rn View Post
    I like the suggestion of pocket carry, and I'll add work on saving up a 6 month nest egg in case you have to suddenly find a new job no matter the reason. When you have a little money in your pocket you have more choices.
    I would encourage any one that stresses about their job to do this. Create a safety net for yourself. Start setting money aside and examine your living expenses to decide what can be trimmed to make that money last longer. Several years ago, my wife had a very stressful job. The company was struggling and all of the changes were creating a very stressful place to work. She stuck with it until she was eventually laid off. I wish I could have told her to just quit and I regret not doing it anyway, but her income was important. Now we do have a safety net. Knowing that is there relieves a lot of stress. When things get bad at work, I know that I stay because I choose to, not because I have to.
    Has anyone tried turning the country off and then back on again?

  8. #52
    Senior Member Array CaptSmith's Avatar
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    You spend the best part of your life at work...if you think being armed at work is for you then, find a way...especially and only, because it makes sense for you...and, respectfully, good luck

  9. #53
    Senior Member Array DaGunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeff_b View Post
    I am not an employment lawyer however if there is no contract I believe you are referred to as an at will employee. The employer can let you go for no reason at all. Without a contract you can also terminate your employment at any time. They can not terminate you for illegal reasons. This is why a lot of employers will terminate employees and just state it is not working out or some other generic reason.
    As a former corporate manager and as a business owner. There are 2 ways you can be "let go": 1) With Cause and 2) Without Cause. "It's just not working out" termination is Without Cause and you are eligible for unemployment benefits. If you're terminated With Cause (you broke the rules) your application for unemployment benefits will be denied. You would then have to file an appeal and go through the process to get them. If the employer can document the "cause" for your dismissal, you lose.
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  10. #54
    VIP Member Array CDW4ME's Avatar
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    If you lose your job, surely a pro gun company will sponsor you ....

    I'm not inclined to disarm for a concert, game, (entertainment) and I ain't going on a plane or cruise.
    "Wouldn't want to or Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.

  11. #55
    Member Array jrec87's Avatar
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    you've been directed not to by higher up, regardless of policy. i wouldn't.
    I don't think it's nice, you laughin'.

  12. #56
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    Some are making this much more complex than it needs to be. It doesn't matter whether it is written policy or not, particularly if one lives in a right-to-fire state minus employment contractual protection. Once the employee has been advised by the employer of prohibited at-work behavior, due notice has been served. Violate a lawful order specifically directed, whether individually or as a group, face the consequences.

    The OP, IMO blew the opportunity to carry at work when he carelessly exposed his supposedly-concealed firearm to a fellow employee. Actions have consequences.
    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill

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  13. #57
    VIP Member Array Gabill's Avatar
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    If me I would not carry in the office. I would get a secure means of leaving in my vehicle. No need of pushing your employer, you were told not to do it. The next time you could be fired.
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  14. #58
    Member Array Hawaiianone's Avatar
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    My employer has a no weapons policy. I abide by it even though I do not agree with it. Their house, their rules. I need my paycheck to support my family and they come first. If carrying at work is that important to you, go find another job that allows it.
    Kilowatt3 and ParsonBrown like this.

  15. #59
    Member Array Darren35's Avatar
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    I decided to leave the gun in my car. Can’t afford to lose this job. I just need to watch my surroundings and be prepared to run out of the back food. It’s a shame really. I would try and protect my coworkers if I had a weapon. Now I am out the door.

  16. #60
    Member Array since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Some are making this much more complex than it needs to be. It doesn't matter whether it is written policy or not, particularly if one lives in a right-to-fire state minus employment contractual protection. Once the employee has been advised by the employer of prohibited at-work behavior, due notice has been served. Violate a lawful order specifically directed, whether individually or as a group, face the consequences.

    The OP, IMO blew the opportunity to carry at work when he carelessly exposed his supposedly-concealed firearm to a fellow employee. Actions have consequences.
    I'm inclined to agree. I say "inclined" because whether I carry at work or not depends on a few other factors. Is the employer's mandate imperative? Do they screen briefcases/bags on the way in? Do they afford employees locked storage for personal items? Does the employer provide any security at work at all? If so, to what extent?

    I have a friend who works for a well-known bank. Absolutely zero tolerance for firearms. Even in their parking lot they prohibit employees and customers from carrying a firearm. But they're not legally allowed to search vehicles, as even on their property, motor vehicles are considered by state law as an extension of the home. Thus, a number of people have hidden gun safes in their cars. The bank does employ security, including metal detectors, an armed guard, and locked doors that can only be opened from the inside by security. Even so, my friend knows of at least one person who was outed by a fellow employee taken to lunch, and the CC was unceremoniously terminated.

    That used to be my bank. Upon hearing that, I cancelled everything with them and transferred to a local chain that at least tolerates OC and doesn't mind CC in the least, at least from their customers. Employees are still prohibited from carrying, citing liability issues.

    My bottom line: Know the "for cause/without cause" risks, but also know we live in a country where the right to keep and bear arms was supposed to be guaranteed by our Second Amendment. You have a God-given right to defend yourself. Having said that, the likelihood of needing to do so varies widely, but on average, the need to defend one's self from grave bodily injury at work is approximately 50% in 100 years. Thus, 25% over 50 years, 5% over 10 years, etc. That's not the likelihood of you getting killed. That's the likelihood of an incident requiring armed (or very brave unarmed) intervention.

    Weigh that against the likelihood of your being terminated for cause if your employer found out.
    Mike1956 likes this.
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