Carrying legally but not wisely - Page 4

Carrying legally but not wisely

This is a discussion on Carrying legally but not wisely within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by WC145 So, the law's holster "requirement" has been debunked, but more importantly, guns don't just "fire" on their own, even if they're ...

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Thread: Carrying legally but not wisely

  1. #46
    Ex Member Array WildRose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WC145 View Post
    So, the law's holster "requirement" has been debunked, but more importantly, guns don't just "fire" on their own, even if they're unsecured in your pocket. I've carried snubbies in jacket pockets, jeans pockets, cargo pockets, etc for literally decades and never had an issue. In fact, I carried my BUG in a pocket inside the cargo pocket of my uniform pants when I was on the job. Guns don't go off unless you make them. The article doesn't say anything about how the gun was being carried or what kind of gun it was but you an bet that the guy was doing something with it when he shot himself. There are no accidental discharges, only negligent ones.




    Carrying guns with exposed triggers was never an issue, and most holsters were cut so that the triggers were exposed, until striker fired guns without manual safeties became popular, particularly among LE agencies. Now you had a handgun that could be fired while holstered that didn't require a safety to be deactivated, or the hammer cocked either manually or via double action trigger pull either of which rotates the cylinder. Cops shooting themselves (google "Glock leg") became common place and holster design, rather than gun design and training, was blamed. The "solution" was holsters that completely covered the trigger so it couldn't be pulled while the gun was in the holster, those design changes were eventually made nearly universal because the attitude was that if one type of handgun needed it, they all need it, thanks to mindsets like "you have to be a complete idiot to carry any handgun with an exposed trigger".

    Know your gun, know your gear, know the basic rules of gun handling, and you'll decrease your chances of something stupid happening, like shooting yourself unintentionally, to pretty much zero.
    I realize guns don't go off without some outside force acting on them.

    There have been numerous incidents of guns carried loosely in pockets or purses going off when people were digging around in same for change, keys, whatever and in doing so something interacts with the trigger and they go off. This is why the pocket should be reserved for the firearm only.

    The same advantage of being able to fire while holstered leads to AD's when something gets in the trigger well accidentally in a holster with an exposed trigger if the gun can be fired at all while still holstered.

  2. #47
    Ex Member Array WildRose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LimaCharlie View Post
    I have carried revolvers, rifles, and shotguns with exposed triggers for around fifty-six years without any issues. My semi-auto handgun holsters cover the trigger.
    Same here though not for quite as many years.

    Not much chance though of my long guns having an AD since i don't carry them in a pocket full of coins, keys etc or a woman's purse with god knows what in it.

    I also don't carry them holstered at a level where it's easy for brush or something else to interact with the trigger. Unlike my defensive semi auto's they also all have manual safeties.

  3. #48
    Ex Member Array WildRose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GpTom View Post
    The guy who is standing outside wants his money back. Then he says he will have to let his kids stay home form school because of this. Sounds like he has already talked to a lawyer about how to make some money off of this incident.
    My impression as well. "Ghetto Lottery".

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  5. #49
    Member Array jrec87's Avatar
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    what, no one likes the Glock pants clip with the little plastic trigger saf-t-block you pop out with your finger when you draw?

    come on that's as safe as it gets.

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    WC145 likes this.
    I don't think it's nice, you laughin'.

  6. #50
    Senior Member Array nightsonge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flphotog View Post
    I've highlighted the only real choice.
    Meh, incorrect the correct answer is MORON Discharge.
    A 1911 is Not an obsession, it's simply a recognition that it's THE Gun. :-) All others are runner ups. And hey, if all else fails, aim for the nose and fling it to knock out your foe. Let's see y'all do that with a kel-Tec. ;-)

  7. #51
    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    From the article it sounds like people didn't know the guy had a gun on him until after they realized he had a gunshot wound.

    I guess it's so noisy in Chuck E Cheese that no one recognized the bang of a gun firing.
    OldChap, OD*, AzQkr and 1 others like this.
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  8. #52
    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    I'll bet it was a striker fired gun. I'm not saying strikers cannot be carried safely, but it requires a higher level of safety discipline. Strikers are less forgiving of human error. And to err is human...
    forester58 and WC145 like this.
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  9. #53
    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    I'll bet it was a striker fired gun. I'm not saying strikers cannot be carried safely, but it requires a higher level of safety discipline. Strikers are less forgiving of human error. And to err is human...
    That's one of the reasons I'm a fan of the XD series passive grip safety. When I'm tired but still carrying, focused on other tasks like yard work, or hand off a gun to a family member the extra layer of safety might prove helpful.
    Libertywheel likes this.
    Ride hard, shoot straight, always speak the truth

  10. #54
    Ex Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    My brother , career military, kept saying he didn't like people carrying because their guns could go off, not because they may mess up , but ... the gun would mysteriously go off by itself. Couldn't believe with his background he was saying that.

    So, one day we were doing work at the farm we have, I layed a Revolver I was carrying on the picnic table when we ate some lunch. Afterwards I left it there . I kept going back by it and looking at it . He asked what I was doing ..... I told him, I told him I must have a useless gun because it hasn't gone off once by itself. Yep, he got the point.

    I look at it this way, for better or worse, I can only be responsible for what I do, and that's all. Will I make suggestions to someone , yes, if appropriate , etc. in the situation. I know when the guy in the gun shop wouldn't quit pointing the muzzle of an AR at my head, and after asking him nicely 4 times to stop doing it, I finally just grabbed the barrel and told him to stop or I was going to plant it somewhere he didn't want it .... and asked the clerk to take the gun away from this guy, and the clerk did.

  11. #55
    Ex Member Array WildRose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    My brother , career military, kept saying he didn't like people carrying because their guns could go off, not because they may mess up , but ... the gun would mysteriously go off by itself. Couldn't believe with his background he was saying that.

    So, one day we were doing work at the farm we have, I layed a Revolver I was carrying on the picnic table when we ate some lunch. Afterwards I left it there . I kept going back by it and looking at it . He asked what I was doing ..... I told him, I told him I must have a useless gun because it hasn't gone off once by itself. Yep, he got the point.

    I look at it this way, for better or worse, I can only be responsible for what I do, and that's all. Will I make suggestions to someone , yes, if appropriate , etc. in the situation. I know when the guy in the gun shop wouldn't quit pointing the muzzle of an AR at my head, and after asking him nicely 4 times to stop doing it, I finally just grabbed the barrel and told him to stop or I was going to plant it somewhere he didn't want it .... and asked the clerk to take the gun away from this guy, and the clerk did.
    No organization in the country is more anal about firearms than the US military. They assume everyone is at an 8th grade level or below and commanders who bear the responsibility for any accidents that occur in their command are the most anal of all.

  12. #56
    Ex Member Array CG11's Avatar
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    People make mistakes. Not carrying safely with is one. As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Wisdom is wasted on the unwise.
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  13. #57
    VIP Member Array WC145's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
    I realize guns don't go off without some outside force acting on them.

    There have been numerous incidents of guns carried loosely in pockets or purses going off when people were digging around in same for change, keys, whatever and in doing so something interacts with the trigger and they go off. This is why the pocket should be reserved for the firearm only.

    The same advantage of being able to fire while holstered leads to AD's when something gets in the trigger well accidentally in a holster with an exposed trigger if the gun can be fired at all while still holstered.
    If you don't have enough common sense to not carry a gun loose in a pocket or purse full of junk, you deserve what you get, and you shouldn't have to be told that. Like I said, know your gun, know your gear, know the basic rules of gun handling.

    There is no advantage to being able to fire a gun while it is secured in belt holster, which is exactly the issue with modern striker fired pistols and holsters that don't cover the trigger. You don't have the same issue with revolvers or with pistols that have manual safeties. And, again, there aren't any accidental discharges, just negligent ones.
    AzQkr, OD* and G-man* like this.
    "If violent crime is to be curbed, it is only the intended victim who can do it. The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge or jury. Therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim." - LtCol Jeff Cooper

  14. #58
    Ex Member Array WildRose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WC145 View Post
    If you don't have enough common sense to not carry a gun loose in a pocket or purse full of junk, you deserve what you get, and you shouldn't have to be told that. Like I said, know your gun, know your gear, know the basic rules of gun handling.

    There is no advantage to being able to fire a gun while it is secured in belt holster, which is exactly the issue with modern striker fired pistols and holsters that don't cover the trigger. You don't have the same issue with revolvers or with pistols that have manual safeties. And, again, there aren't any accidental discharges, just negligent ones.
    Ignorance and an unfamiliarity with a given weapon lead to AD's. Unfortunately the learning curve is sharp and the results can be fatal.

    People are not born knowing all their is to be known about any given firearm and they have to be taught or learn on their own. Unfortunately quality instruction can be hard to come by and beyond the budget of a lot of folks who most need a firearm for self defense.

  15. #59
    VIP Member Array WC145's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
    Ignorance and an unfamiliarity with a given weapon lead to ND's. Unfortunately the learning curve is sharp and the results can be fatal.

    People are not born knowing all their is to be known about any given firearm and they have to be taught or learn on their own. Unfortunately quality instruction can be hard to come by and beyond the budget of a lot of folks who most need a firearm for self defense.
    There, fixed it for you.
    If you are ignorant of, or unfamiliar with, the safe operation of a gun or anything else these days, it's your own fault. Never in the history of man has information on any subject, including safe handling and operation of a handgun, been so readily available.


    There was a reason that beginners used to be steered towards double action revolvers for first handguns and home defense - they're simple to use, it's easy to see if they're loaded, and the instruction required to be safe and functional with one is minimal. And the chances of a ND with a DA revolver are also minimal thanks to the weight of the double action trigger pull. Instead, the gun magazines, writers, internet warriors, and a majority of instructors are telling everyone, including those that have zero training or experience, that they need a high capacity polymer auto or else they will be woefully ill equipped to protect themselves, which, of course, is a load of BS.
    OD* likes this.
    "If violent crime is to be curbed, it is only the intended victim who can do it. The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge or jury. Therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim." - LtCol Jeff Cooper

  16. #60
    Ex Member Array WildRose's Avatar
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    It must be hell being perfect when the rest of humanity is not.

    You didn't "fix" anything you violated the TOS by altering my post so I suggest you delete it.

    The fact is that most of the public is ignorant when it comes to firearms, they didn't grow up with them, they have little or no experience at all with them before getting their carry permit.

    It isn't our job to insult them, it is our job to educate and mentor them to become the best trained and most responsible gun owners they can be.

    As for your last, you have absolutely no basis in fact for making such a claim. You sure as heck can't speak for what the majority of instructors are teaching.

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