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BGs aren't as stupid as you think

5K views 46 replies 30 participants last post by  since9 
#1 ·
This evening, my wife & I were out shopping at a local outlet mall. We do our general shopping there because none of the stores have gun buster signs and we both CC. As we were walking to our car, I noticed 3 “youths” walking towards us in a tight group. As they got to about 20’ or so, they started to fan out. My internal SA alarms went off and in general conversation I spoke our danger keyword.

My amazing wife didn’t miss a beat and started separating from me as we both shifted our bags to our off-hands. My wife put her hand in her purse as if to get keys, but, gripped her Kimber Sapphire. I stopped swinging my right arm while walking in case I had to draw.

To our relief, the 3 youths just looked at each other and immediately turned to their right and kept walking through the line of parked cars and then turned back towards the stores. My take-away is that BGs have SA too and decided to let discretion be the better part of valor.
 
#4 ·
DaGunny, nice that you and your wife are a coordinated team.
 
#5 ·
Most excellent that both of you were prepared, had a plan, and implemented that plan at the appropriate moment.

The "survival instincts" of those nice young fellers kicked-in, and they lived to rob another day.

It's beautiful when a plan comes together. :smile:

I'll bet that those "youts" are still talking to their buddies about how they ALMOST had their butts kicked. :danceban:
 
#8 ·
That's why even when I carry OWB or in a shoulder holster I almost always have my LCR in my front right pocket. Nobody knows I'm gripping my gun, I'm just some dude with his hands in his pockets.

As for Bad Bob's comment, I try my best to keep my right hand free whether I'm walking the dog or carrying grocery bags. One less thing to fumble in a high stress situation.
 
#7 ·
Good job. A little constructive criticism, You should not have had to shift your bags to your off hand. It was a habit I learned in the Army and it has stayed with me, keep your gun hand free.

Lucky for you they were amateurs, it could have been worse had they approached from a different angle and were closer before they made their first move.
 
#10 ·
Good job by both you and your wife in alerting the dirtbags to your awareness of their intentions.

My brothers are both cops. Many are the times they've cautioned female family members against fumbling for keys, gabbing on cell phones or giving parking lot predators any other signals of cluelessness. Those are the kinds of behaviors that attract predators like sharks to blood in the water.
 
#11 ·
Good job. I've never relied on "danger" words. Wouldn't remember it when I needed it. Could never remember the code word at the alert facility, which ended up with me face down on occasion. I never had a problem using plain English when communication required it.
 
#20 ·
That is 100% true. The truly smart ones don't go attack people in public. The smart ones hide in pain sight and it takes years to catch them - usually. The stupid ones are, more and more every day, ending up with bullet holes in them, or taking a permanent nap on the coroner's table.

Smart criminals steal and people don't realize they are victims - sometimes for quite some time.
@DaGunny good job. Every gunfight avoided is a major victory.
 
#18 ·
I'm sure that if you kept your head down and assumed "We're not looking for any trouble" body language you would have found out what they had on their mind. That was probably the body language they were hoping to find. By not doing what they expected, you disrupted their plan and they had to form a new one which was to abort. Well done.
 
#23 ·
@DaGunny

I applaud you for having a plan of action, I wonder how many actually have any kind of plan ,

when ever I see people walking most have there head down looking at their phone etc ....
 
#27 ·
Criminals are a only fractional, but symbolic, piece of the total population and come in all shapes and sizes, fat, skinny, tall, short, friendly, abrasive, immediately suspect, completely unsuspecting, your somewhat distant neighbor, or a someone you've always known. Throw some drug habits into the mix and anyone can become a destructive force.

It is for this reason that it make sense to ALWAYS keep your head on a swivel and follow one of the well-known rules of Gen. James Mattis, "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet." To those who don't really understand the dangers of today's society, this rule sounds both cruel and pathetic. To those who understand the real dangers that surround us everyday...well we already have our plans.
 
#28 ·
Most people do walk in a tighter group upon exiting a vehicle or upon an initial rendezvous then gradually fan out as they move as a group. They could also naturally fan out if they need to navigate through or around other people moving toward them. There could be many reasons for why they changed their formation or why they changed directions but.. [YES], its certainly possible that they were setting up to potentially attack you. That being said, I have no criticism regarding your abundance of caution or readying yourself for potential trouble. I do feel that based on the way you describe this encounter, you have already decided that these guys are "badguys" and that you thwarted an attack. That is some fairly absolute determinations based on very little. We as good guys are behind the curve in regards to thwarting any attack that may come our way but that is the nature of acting responsibly. If you try to get too far ahead of the curve, you can easily misinterpret the actions of others and potentially over-react. You don't want to be that guy who pulls a gun on a kid that reached into his pocket for a lighter simply because you didn't like his formation while walking with his friends. You can act with an abundance of caution ( as you did) and still remain reasonably open (mentally) to the possibility that this group of people are not the enemy. They may have changed direction because you and the wife looked as if you were on an attack-vector. Maybe they are on some forum somewhere talking about the man and woman team that tried to tactically flank them in a parking lot. I say that to be funny but I think you get the point. Again though.. good job on paying attention but don't fall victim to the "coiled spring" mentality. It can happen to any of us.

Back to your story: I would said "on me" and moved off ( perpendicular) in the same way as you did and [if] they moved to intercept us.. that's when I would have been much more inclined to call them "badguys". That is when I would have made it abundantly clear that they were not to approach me. I personally would not call a groups varying formation to be necessarily overt but the unnecessary move to intercept me once I move away, would be immediately concerning. On a personal level, I am rather cynical and suspicious by nature but I wont label someone a threat without some sort of articulable overtness. That's just me
 
#32 ·
Thank you for your thoughtful commentary. I shall endeavor to elucidate the scene. I first noticed the "youths" walking down the center of the isle and they were well within half an arm's length of each other and continued as such for a number of parked cars. They appeared to be chatting with each other, but not loud enough to be heard. At approximately 20' from us, all conversation between them ceased. The one on the left angled left nearly touching the parked cars on the left. The one on the right mirrored the same action, while the one in the middle maintained his course down the middle of the isle. Our walking path would have taken us between the middle "youth" and the one on the right. Saying "On me" would have taken us in-between cars negating any movement to "get off the X."

I'm not a tactical genius, but I've been in enough scrapes (in the military & civilian life) to recognize movements intended to gain a tactical advantage. Once my wife & I changed our gaits, the "youths" then just looked at each other and instantly broke left (to me) and reassembled in a close group in the next isle over.


You are correct, sir, that it may have been much ado about nothing and they were innocent youths just going shopping. IMHO, based on over 20 years in the military and a misspent youth, they were not.
 
#33 · (Edited)
You were there, I certainly wasn't. If your wife was able to move away, all I am saying is that if you both did the same thing ( moved out of their direct path), it would be pretty darn easy to evaluate their intentions if they moved to intercept you. I do not claim to be a good example of what others should do but I simply require a little more before I will accept joe blow citizen as a threat to my safety. It doesn't mean I wont make an effort to avoid a suspicious circumstance, I will.. but I will remain open to the fact that not every unusual act is a prelude to violence. You feel how you feel, I respect that but clearly you and I have different filters.


I will now go look up elucidate. ;)
 
#35 ·
Glad you and your wife are prepared. I wish my wife would listen to what I say. Last time I needed her to dial 911 for me, she fought me, while demanding that the occupants of the car were up to no good. If I say it, she fights it, and wonders why I don't even want to talk to her. I can expect my wife to be an anchor instead of a partner in any situation because I'm too stupid to even know how to take out the trash. I really envy you.
 
#47 ·
This mimics my first encounter with criminals while armed. I'd walked out of a start in the afternoon into its empty back parking lot. A car travelling down a side road went past the entrance to the parking lot, skidding to a stop in the snow, backed up, entered the parking lot, and made a beeline for me, pulling up just short of the sidewalk.

There was nowhere to run, and it was icy all over. Four guys exited the car as I turned to face them. All four locked eyes on me. As I reached for my gun inside my belly bag, a fifth person I hadn't seen, sitting in the back seat, screamed, "HE'S GOTTA GUN!"

All four immediately stopped and reversed course, one saying with hands up and a nervous smile on his face, "We just kidding with you, man. Just kidding."

Yeah, right. Sure. I moved the zipper on my bag an inch back to its fully closed position as the car exited the parking lot.

Liars and criminals though they might be, only some are dumber than dirt. The ones who've survived long enough to gain any experience are quite street savvy.

If I hadn't been armed, I would have been robbed, possibly worse. As it was, quite startlingly, this was the afternoon of the same day I received my CC permit in the mail. I'd been eagerly awaiting it's arrival for weeks. I think God was saying two things to me that day: "I've got your back" and "Always carry."
 
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