My Lost/Stolen handgun tale

My Lost/Stolen handgun tale

This is a discussion on My Lost/Stolen handgun tale within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Last Sunday 12/16/18.. Went from church service to my grandson's wrestling tournament about 18 miles away .. On the way to the tourny, i realized ...

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    Senior Member Array beebee's Avatar
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    My Lost/Stolen handgun tale

    Last Sunday 12/16/18..

    Went from church service to my grandson's wrestling tournament about 18 miles away .. On the way to the tourny, i realized I was still carrying, and put my Sig 938 under the seat, and of course locked the doors, carefully checking them to make sure..

    Enjoyed watching my 5 YO grandson take 2nd place and went home about 1 PM.

    Did some errands monday, but mainly just stayed around home... Didn't really think much about the gun or my need for it that day..
    Now its tuesday, and i go as usual to where I keep my EDC 938, and its not there... hmm, thats weird.. Oh, I probably never got it out from under the seat in the truck,, Thought I did, but I guess not.
    Got to the truck, NOT under the seat, or the glove box, or anywhere, despite using lights under the seat, and checking every inch of the truck, Checked every inch of all our cars, nope.. Checked the house up, down, inside out.. nada.

    Now I am panicked, and straining to try and think through every place I had been since sunday, and trying to re trace every step I took.. It was a blank.. I just remembered putting the gun under the seat, because I could not bring it into the school where the tourney was held.

    Read on line NY state law states a missing gun must be reported within 24 hours, so thats what I did, still panicked.
    Sheriff deputy was dispatched, and at my home within 15 minutes... Made me take out every pistol I own and examined them all and checked and recorded every serial #.. Nice enough guy, he could see I was very distressed. I figured, man this IS NY, I am done for, will be kissing my unrestricted CC permit bye bye...
    Had to report in person to the County Sheriff Pistol Permit dept, to have new permits issued for my wife and myself, with the Sig 938 deleted..

    Spent the morning shaking my head wracking my brain, SO disappointed that I simply could not recall WHAT I did to either lose that gun, or have it stolen... I thought I had it at some point on Monday, but I guess I was "mis remembering".. I was disgusted at myself for my frailty of mind, lack of focus,lack of responsibility, and sheer stupidity.. I am 64, and kept saying it might be time to stop carrying, as I am having trouble remembering things...


    We had to stop at a bank after the sheriff's office fiasco... Wife went in, did whatever she had to do, and came back to the car where I was sitting waiting , still disgusted with myself, and my weakness of mind.

    She looks into her pocketbook for something and says,"oh, you're not going to believe this".. and there's my P938.. It had been in her pocketbook all morning...

    Here's what transpired.. I had indeed put my EDC weapon where I always do... right alongside her Sig P 238, high on a concealed shelf.
    Best she could determine, she took her 238 down upon waking up, put it into her pocket book as she sometimes does before putting it on her waist-[IWB Kydex]... However as we were leaving she forgot she had already taken her 238, and simply grabbed my 938... so now she had both our sig EDC weapons in her pocketbook... Here the REALLY crazy part... When the deputy made us produce all our hand guns there at home, she had to go into the pocketbook to get here 238, and did so, and my 938 was probably right underneath it, and she never saw it.. So a few hour after we were at the Sheriff dept, we were back again there again explaining the situation, and that we had located the gun.. they were happy for us I could tell.. Actually the report never made it to Albany either, it was simply filed locally, and closed up...
    They were trying to be helpful, not intrusive in my opinion.
    One of the deputies, gave me some friendly advice as well, that I had NOT thought of.. He said be careful,, You stated you went to a wrestling tourney, and had the gun locked in the truck.. However, remember, Even though you did not carry the gun into school property on your person, it was still in the car, and that of course IS illegal. You cannot have a gun on ANY school property, even in a locked car hundreds of feet from the school itself.. I knew that, but at the time [sunday} it simply did not register.. I was going into a school far from the building, and simply made damn sure I didn't take my gun in... However I was of course in violation, and needed to stay OUT of the parking lot as well with a gun , locked up in the car or not...

    I try really hard to be responsible, vigilant and aware, but even stupid little things such as not being aware you grabbed a 938 not a 238, or thinking you are doing the right thing by locking your gun in the car instead of going into a school building can cause monumental headaches to a CCW permit holder.. Even when one does all he/she can do to be the best CCW owner, things can go very wrong really quickly...
    It was a rough day, and I hope to NEVER have to repeat it.... bob

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    Member Array seebee62's Avatar
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    We’re human and things happen. Glad it wasn’t lost or stolen.




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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    One reason I wouldn't live in New York. We don't have any firearms permits, and with a CC lic. you can carry legally on school property, in the schools or to any events, etc. Only buildings can be posted, not property, and .... it is not a crime even if you do.

    But, I have set a gun down and then later said, oh *** where is that gun. Searched around the house and then found it. Yep, the panic factors kicks in real quick. I hadn't put it up, had put it down on a table across from the safe & the holster blended in with it, and pulled out a different one for the day. Then, I remembered what I had done. ... I had laid it down on a table while I got the other one out and got a phone call ... and after that forgot I hadn't put it up . No kids, etc or anything here anymore , so no concern of anyone else messing with it.

    I found it gives you a bad feeling when you suddenly ask that question, "wait, where's that gun" .
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    Senior Member Array beebee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    One reason I wouldn't live in New York. We don't have any firearms permits, and with a CC lic. you can carry legally on school property, in the schools or to any events, etc. Only buildings can be posted, not property, and .... it is not a crime even if you do.

    But, I have set a gun down and then later said, oh *** where is that gun. Searched around the house and then found it. Yep, the panic factors kicks in real quick. I hadn't put it up, had put it down on a table across from the safe & the holster blended in with it, and pulled out a different one for the day. Then, I remembered what I had done. ... I had laid it down on a table while I got the other one out and got a phone call ... and after that forgot I hadn't put it up . No kids, etc or anything here anymore , so no concern of anyone else messing with it.

    I found it gives you a bad feeling when you suddenly ask that question, "wait, where's that gun" .
    its nice to know you can relate to the sick feeling I had.. It was awful. I was unable to remember that I had indeed put the gun in its correct place, and thats why I was so angry with myself.
    it was just routine I suppose, like every other day, so I didn't commit to memory placing the gun there as I always do.

    My last recollection of actually handling the gun and placing it somewhere was when I put it under the seat on Sunday, because that was out of the norm of something I would do.. Putting it on the shelf or retrieving it from there is something I do each day, sometimes several times a day, and I probably don't commit it to memory as well.

    As a side note, i was informed by the nice lady at the pistol permit office of the sheriff dept that I would not have lost my CC permit.. Once reported, the gun is disassociated from the owner, its serial # is removed from the NYS pistol permit card,, so if its used in a crime, or found and turned in, the owner will not be held responsible..
    She said its not real common for gun owners to report a missing weapon but it does happen.
    She related cases where people have lost guns in the field and didn't report them for close to a year, simply because they didn't use them often, and never realized there were missing until they sought to use them again at a much later date...bob

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    Beebee, we all make mistakes. This is not a criticism, but I can see where having two guns in the house of very similar size and appearance could result in a series of mistakes if a person was not careful. Just a thought...

    I have multiple 9mm Glocks but they are all different sizes. But I also have one .45 and one 10MM, and they are distinctly different. My wife carries a G43 and I a Sig M11-A1. We both know how to shoot each other's gun, but there's no way either of us would mistake which is which.
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebee View Post
    One of the deputies, gave me some friendly advice as well, that I had NOT thought of.. He said be careful,, You stated you went to a wrestling tourney, and had the gun locked in the truck.. However, remember, Even though you did not carry the gun into school property on your person, it was still in the car, and that of course IS illegal. You cannot have a gun on ANY school property, even in a locked car hundreds of feet from the school itself.. I knew that, but at the time [sunday} it simply did not register.. I was going into a school far from the building, and simply made damn sure I didn't take my gun in... However I was of course in violation, and needed to stay OUT of the parking lot as well with a gun , locked up in the car or not...

    I try really hard to be responsible, vigilant and aware, but even stupid little things such as not being aware you grabbed a 938 not a 238, or thinking you are doing the right thing by locking your gun in the car instead of going into a school building can cause monumental headaches to a CCW permit holder.. Even when one does all he/she can do to be the best CCW owner, things can go very wrong really quickly...
    It was a rough day, and I hope to NEVER have to repeat it.... bob
    Whether or not it's legal to have a firearm in a locked motor vehicle while you're either on or near (within 1,000') of school property and whether or not you're with the vehicle depends on your state concealed carry laws, as the federal law prohibits it while providing for state exceptions.

    There are many misconceptions about this, including among law enforcement, so let's just examine it:

    18 U.S.C. § 922(q)(2):
    (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license

    This brings us to the state law, which, here in Colorado, reads:

    CRS 18-12-214. Authority granted by permit - carrying restrictions.
    (3) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvements erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school; except that:
    (a) A permittee may have a handgun on the real property of the public school so long as the handgun remains in his or her vehicle and, if the permittee is not in the vehicle, the handgun is in a compartment within the vehicle and the vehicle is locked:

    So, there you go. Federal law says, "No, except as licensed by the State," and the state details the means and manner of the exception.

    In summary, check your State's concealed handgun and permit laws. You, too, might find your State lists the except as required by federal law.

    Back to law enforcement misunderstanding... I was in a meeting with four of them discussing various issues when one sat upright and declared, "That's illegal! Can't you that. It's against both federal and state law, and we arrest kids for having guns in their cars all the time."

    When I mentioned I wasn't talking about the kids, but the parents, he defaulted to the 1,000' rule, "unless you have a permit, then you can drive by the school but never enter school grounds..." So, in essence, he really didn't know the law, yet he was absolutely certain he did, and was trying to lecture me as to how many different ways that would be breaking the law.

    I subsequently sent him a clear, concise letter much like the text above. No response.

    I then sent one to his supervisor, who confirmed that my reading of the law was accurate.

    Fair enough. Wasn't looking to get anyone in trouble. I was merely wanting to be sure I'd read the law -- both state and federal law, taken together -- correctly. It's since been confirmed by multiple other sources.

    In the meantime, again, check your own state laws, as it's entirely dependent upon what they say.
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    Great reminders. Thanks for putting it up.

    Helpful or not, demanding to see every gun owned and recording serial numbers goes well beyond anything they will be getting from me if and when I do have to report a loss.
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    I reported Sig 22 stolen from my truck several years ago. Didn't go through what you did just reported over the phone. 2 months later my cousin walks up to me and says I forgot to give this back to you. He had taken it out of my truck to try it out. So went by the police station and told them what had happened. Just glad it didn't fall into the wrong hands.
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    As far as that 24 hour reporting goes, "What? my gun is missing?"
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    That's got to be a distressing moment, beebee, and I can certainly see the logic of the way things transpired. But, we are all human, and goofy stuff happens even when we are trying to do the right thing. Very glad things turned out well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebee View Post
    Last Sunday 12/16/18..

    Went from church service to my grandson's wrestling tournament about 18 miles away .. On the way to the tourny, i realized I was still carrying, and put my Sig 938 under the seat, and of course locked the doors, carefully checking them to make sure..

    Enjoyed watching my 5 YO grandson take 2nd place and went home about 1 PM.

    Did some errands monday, but mainly just stayed around home... Didn't really think much about the gun or my need for it that day..
    Now its tuesday, and i go as usual to where I keep my EDC 938, and its not there... hmm, thats weird.. Oh, I probably never got it out from under the seat in the truck,, Thought I did, but I guess not.
    Got to the truck, NOT under the seat, or the glove box, or anywhere, despite using lights under the seat, and checking every inch of the truck, Checked every inch of all our cars, nope.. Checked the house up, down, inside out.. nada.

    Now I am panicked, and straining to try and think through every place I had been since sunday, and trying to re trace every step I took.. It was a blank.. I just remembered putting the gun under the seat, because I could not bring it into the school where the tourney was held.

    Read on line NY state law states a missing gun must be reported within 24 hours, so thats what I did, still panicked.
    Sheriff deputy was dispatched, and at my home within 15 minutes... Made me take out every pistol I own and examined them all and checked and recorded every serial #.. Nice enough guy, he could see I was very distressed. I figured, man this IS NY, I am done for, will be kissing my unrestricted CC permit bye bye...
    Had to report in person to the County Sheriff Pistol Permit dept, to have new permits issued for my wife and myself, with the Sig 938 deleted..

    Spent the morning shaking my head wracking my brain, SO disappointed that I simply could not recall WHAT I did to either lose that gun, or have it stolen... I thought I had it at some point on Monday, but I guess I was "mis remembering".. I was disgusted at myself for my frailty of mind, lack of focus,lack of responsibility, and sheer stupidity.. I am 64, and kept saying it might be time to stop carrying, as I am having trouble remembering things...


    We had to stop at a bank after the sheriff's office fiasco... Wife went in, did whatever she had to do, and came back to the car where I was sitting waiting , still disgusted with myself, and my weakness of mind.

    She looks into her pocketbook for something and says,"oh, you're not going to believe this".. and there's my P938.. It had been in her pocketbook all morning...

    Here's what transpired.. I had indeed put my EDC weapon where I always do... right alongside her Sig P 238, high on a concealed shelf.
    Best she could determine, she took her 238 down upon waking up, put it into her pocket book as she sometimes does before putting it on her waist-[IWB Kydex]... However as we were leaving she forgot she had already taken her 238, and simply grabbed my 938... so now she had both our sig EDC weapons in her pocketbook... Here the REALLY crazy part... When the deputy made us produce all our hand guns there at home, she had to go into the pocketbook to get here 238, and did so, and my 938 was probably right underneath it, and she never saw it.. So a few hour after we were at the Sheriff dept, we were back again there again explaining the situation, and that we had located the gun.. they were happy for us I could tell.. Actually the report never made it to Albany either, it was simply filed locally, and closed up...
    They were trying to be helpful, not intrusive in my opinion.
    One of the deputies, gave me some friendly advice as well, that I had NOT thought of.. He said be careful,, You stated you went to a wrestling tourney, and had the gun locked in the truck.. However, remember, Even though you did not carry the gun into school property on your person, it was still in the car, and that of course IS illegal. You cannot have a gun on ANY school property, even in a locked car hundreds of feet from the school itself.. I knew that, but at the time [sunday} it simply did not register.. I was going into a school far from the building, and simply made damn sure I didn't take my gun in... However I was of course in violation, and needed to stay OUT of the parking lot as well with a gun , locked up in the car or not...

    I try really hard to be responsible, vigilant and aware, but even stupid little things such as not being aware you grabbed a 938 not a 238, or thinking you are doing the right thing by locking your gun in the car instead of going into a school building can cause monumental headaches to a CCW permit holder.. Even when one does all he/she can do to be the best CCW owner, things can go very wrong really quickly...
    It was a rough day, and I hope to NEVER have to repeat it.... bob
    Man, just reading that I could feel the nerves in my stomach start to tighten up. I’ve done things like that. Glad it worked out OK
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    Senior Member Array beebee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Whether or not it's legal to have a firearm in a locked motor vehicle while you're either on or near (within 1,000') of school property and whether or not you're with the vehicle depends on your state concealed carry laws, as the federal law prohibits it while providing for state exceptions.

    There are many misconceptions about this, including among law enforcement, so let's just examine it:

    18 U.S.C. § 922(q)(2):
    (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license

    This brings us to the state law, which, here in Colorado, reads:

    CRS 18-12-214. Authority granted by permit - carrying restrictions.
    (3) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvements erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school; except that:
    (a) A permittee may have a handgun on the real property of the public school so long as the handgun remains in his or her vehicle and, if the permittee is not in the vehicle, the handgun is in a compartment within the vehicle and the vehicle is locked:

    So, there you go. Federal law says, "No, except as licensed by the State," and the state details the means and manner of the exception.

    In summary, check your State's concealed handgun and permit laws. You, too, might find your State lists the except as required by federal law.

    Back to law enforcement misunderstanding... I was in a meeting with four of them discussing various issues when one sat upright and declared, "That's illegal! Can't you that. It's against both federal and state law, and we arrest kids for having guns in their cars all the time."

    When I mentioned I wasn't talking about the kids, but the parents, he defaulted to the 1,000' rule, "unless you have a permit, then you can drive by the school but never enter school grounds..." So, in essence, he really didn't know the law, yet he was absolutely certain he did, and was trying to lecture me as to how many different ways that would be breaking the law.

    I subsequently sent him a clear, concise letter much like the text above. No response.

    I then sent one to his supervisor, who confirmed that my reading of the law was accurate.

    Fair enough. Wasn't looking to get anyone in trouble. I was merely wanting to be sure I'd read the law -- both state and federal law, taken together -- correctly. It's since been confirmed by multiple other sources.

    In the meantime, again, check your own state laws, as it's entirely dependent upon what they say.
    Yes I did check NY laws after reading your response.. its a felony...
    It just never occurred to me.. I was on the way to my grandson's wrestling tourney, thought about my in pocket Sig, thought "oops, can't go into a school with this", and stuck it under the seat, long before I got anywhere near the school parking lot... never thought I was committing a crime on the same level in the state's eyes as grand theft or assault with a deadly weapon.

    I appreciate the officer explaining in a well mannered and non threatening way that I needed to be aware of such things in this state..
    we also always carry when camping here in NY, but again, its a felony to carry in a state park, anywhere in the state, bears, coyotes and potential homicidal lunatics not withstanding, so we'll have to reconsider where we camp from now on.... bob
    ShooterGranny, Snub44 and since9 like this.

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    Senior Member Array ButtShot14's Avatar
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    I would have been very reluctant to supply the serial numbers on all my guns. I cannot think of a reason for the deputy to ask for them, unless it would make them easier to confiscate if such a thing were to happen.

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    Senior Member Array beebee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ButtShot14 View Post
    I would have been very reluctant to supply the serial numbers on all my guns. I cannot think of a reason for the deputy to ask for them, unless it would make them easier to confiscate if such a thing were to happen.
    Yeah understood, but you live in a place[ for now at least] that still respects 2A.. I live in a state where its despised by the vast majority of the population, and they want it repealed for the most part..
    NY residents want even stricter gun laws than we already have, even here in the upstate believe it or not.. It made me sick to have to hand all my handguns to a deputy, with my tail between my legs, and have him examine and log each one into a report, but this IS NY after all... My grandchildren are close by, and they need us pretty badly for at least the next several years, so i am stuck living here for now... NY wants confiscation, its very obvious to me... bob
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    VIP Member Array scottync's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Great reminders. Thanks for putting it up.

    Helpful or not, demanding to see every gun owned and recording serial numbers goes well beyond anything they will be getting from me if and when I do have to report a loss.
    My thoughts too... what the hell? The OP didn't lose his gun safe.
    Pete63 likes this.

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