Different calibers for different situations? - Page 5

Different calibers for different situations?

This is a discussion on Different calibers for different situations? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by SFury Military Intelligence. Military intelligence is to intelligence as military music is to music. I read that somewhere....

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Thread: Different calibers for different situations?

  1. #61
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    Array Mike1956's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFury View Post
    Military Intelligence.
    Military intelligence is to intelligence as military music is to music.

    I read that somewhere.
    OD* likes this.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    Today the 9mm may be a good choice, but not back in the 80s.

    Honestly, it's amazing we still have a nation standing with some of the stories, and just the firsthand ones at that, I've heard from those that served about the "leadership" of some of the officers. I'm not certain I can believe all of the stories my ex-army co-worker tells or not. However, most of them are so stupid, I believe they are. They line up with what I've seen as a government employee doing IT work.

  3. #63
    Distinguished Member Array dennis40x's Avatar
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    I don't belong to or do the Handgun/Caliber of the Month club and or Handgun Rotation. Thus I utilize S&W-Shield-9X19mm. If the previously mentioned handgun and caliber isn't good enough then it isn't good enough for all occasions then the following, yours truly will bite the dust. I do make a singular exception when working on the property, because we have occasionaly encountered Black Bears a 12Ga-pump shotgun with slugs.

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  5. #64
    Member Array BackpackHunter's Avatar
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    I use a 9mm regardless of the situation. As to black bear, it is not uncommon to see them 600+ pounds, hogs while not as plentiful in my area are typically in the 150-300lb range. When I hunt in grizz country it is still the lowly 9mm that gets taken. In all situations ammo is chosen for penetration.

  6. #65
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFury View Post
    Big pigs have thick skulls and shoulders. Most self defense rounds are not going to be a good choice. Realistically you will get 1, maybe 2, shots off if you are lucky in the woods. I'm not certain my .357 mag would handle the big pigs reliably, and it is a significantly better round than the .357 SIG. I don't need to deal with them. We don't have the cold weather Russian variety of pigs on the loose in Wisconsin.

    For black bear, the .357 mag is the lightest round I would go with for a trail gun. They are very well populated throughout much of the lower 48 states now. Especially on the east coast and in the Midwest where I live. They can get very large. If you ever get to see a 400 or so pound black bear, you will understand. While they do tend to avoid people, a momma bear protecting its cubs could easily ruin your day. I wish I had a copy of my Father's picture of the bear that was estimated to be roughly between 375-400 lbs at his place just outside of the city I live in. The shoulder height (when on all 4 paws) was just shy of 5' tall. We know, because he was standing next to the old feeder my Father had that was 5' tall. The bear smashed that old PVC pipe into nothing in less than a minute (the timer delay between the trail cam pics).

    In the woods, you don't screw around. The bigger the round you can reliably shoot, the better off you are. Rifles and/or shotguns are better yet. My small caliber rifles, the .223 and 22-250, have far more killing power than my handguns. Up here, we call them baby rounds because they are not optimal for killing the larger whitetail deer. Just think about that when you are thinking trail gun.
    I live in North Dakota, I grew up in Michigan, my dad was from Wisconsin. I have been all over northern Minnesota and Canada as well. I have seen my fair share of big critters. I carry a 44 magnum in the woods. I think you miss understood what I said.

    I'm not certain my .357 mag would handle the big pigs reliably, and it is a significantly better round than the .357 SIG.
    In what way? With heavier bullets? of course it is but we were discussing semi auto's I thought.
    A man has got to know his limitations.

    In a world of snowflakes, be a torch.

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardluk1 View Post
    Oh bad bob your so smart - NOT . flintlock did mention the 357sig was better for a Woods Walks and that's what I replied to but I guess that was glossed over by YOU . I happen to live in a county known for it high numbers of black bear and pigs tend to be in Tn or down around the coastal areas not around our area of the mountains . But I did grow up hunting hogs regularly and if you think there nothing specail to kill , well good luck with your 357sig and the lite weight bullet choices on a 400lb pissed off bore coming at YOU .

    I've also hunted in a number of states . Grew in south florida and we had bear at camp in the fakahatchee stand most every night and saw them regularly while out hunting along with some panthers . IF I Want penetration in dangerous game I use hard cast bullets or at least heavier bullets in some other than in something other than a 357sig can manage . Maybe you should spend some time reading up on Luckygunners Lab site to see how your favorite 357sig loads really hold up to some of the regular 40sw loads . The 357sig is NOT all that , good people stopper yea but not special and sure not a better choice for (WOODS WALK ) cartridge . Sure not better than many others ether . Heck even a slow 180gr hst 40sw is far better than anything 357sig has for ether personal defense or woods walks with penetration and expansion !!

    https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/sel...llistic-tests/

    If I need a large dangerous game firearm let it be a 12ga slug gun.
    It is not all about weight and velocity when looking at penetration, sectional density and bullet construction also play a role. We are not discussing what is the absolute best, we were discussing how to make what he has work, or so I thought. And we were not discussing hunting. I don't use 40, 357 mag or Sig for hunting, I use a 44 magnum, if you must know. This however, is not a hunting forum. Explain to me how a 180 grain 40 S&W is better than a 125 grain 357 Sig for personal defense? What data do you have? Jello tests or street results, or maybe cause its bigger? Have you used either for hunting or SD?


    Not that I would suggest it, but a 9mm can work just fine. The trick is are you good enough to make it work. When the people were asking about a woods walk gun one generally assumes it is where they live unless otherwise specified. I would not think to run into the same critters in Arkansas as I would in Alaska unless you were talking about an incident similar to what occurred in Zanesville, Ohio a decade ago.

    https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/def...ts-by-caliber/
    A man has got to know his limitations.

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  8. #67
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
    Yes, the orifice of the hollow point can and frequently does get clogged with clothing debris thereby turning a hollow point into a hybrid FMJ to some degree. But what I meant in my text was not so much that as is the fact that clothing, especially that which is worn in cold weather, offers an impediment to a bullet's flight to the intended target. Since the .40S&W generates significantly more muzzle energy than does the 9mm in the loads I employ, my hope is that the resistance heavy clothing may offer will be offset by the bullet's performance. Also I only use the Federal 165 grain HST or the Gold Dot 165 grain JHP "hot load"* for my .40 caliber pistols.


    * The Gold Dot "Hot Load" (53970) moves out at 100 fps faster than does their standard 165 grain .40S&W.
    I live in North Dakota. heavy clothing does not stop bullets.
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    A man has got to know his limitations.

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  9. #68
    VIP Member Array hardluk1's Avatar
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    badbod & flintlock My reply was related to FLINTLOCK 62 ( mudding the waters reply ) of his brite idea of a 357sig was a good idea for a Woods Walk . Understand ?? The 357sig is nothing special was my point . Not better or as good as the 40sw he already has . I hunt with a 357mag or 44mag too so Bad Bob , Big Deal ! But I have killed a couple deer with a 40sw when the show up under a tree stand .

  10. #69
    VIP Member Array CDW4ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGKC9AYC View Post
    A revolve is out of the question for her as she'd carry it in her purse.
    Not following that, gun purse should have a holster in it.
    My wife has a couple, her favorite looks like this, carries pistol vertical in a holster:
    Militant likes this.
    I'm not inclined to disarm for a concert, game, (entertainment) and I ain't going on a plane or cruise.
    "Wouldn't want to or Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackpackHunter View Post
    I use a 9mm regardless of the situation. As to black bear, it is not uncommon to see them 600+ pounds, hogs while not as plentiful in my area are typically in the 150-300lb range. When I hunt in grizz country it is still the lowly 9mm that gets taken. In all situations ammo is chosen for penetration.
    Well, save the last round for yourself....a 9mm is no round for big bear in a self-defense situation and that's what your relying on....can't tell ya how many .357 cal. slugs we've seen lodged just under the skin on big bears, never making it through the strong muscle layer and heavy bone structure of a large animal.....after many years of carrying a Model 19 with Norma Ammunition I finally conceded....it's the 44mag that gets it done with 240 gr. hardcast....everything else is a toss up.
    Why did the Moron buy a ladder...... he's takin' his case to a higher court.

    Who was it that said, " I wasn't planning on going for a run today.....then the Game Wardens came out of nowhere".

  12. #71
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    "Montana Grizzly Bear Notice:

    In light of the rising frequency of human/grizzly bear
    conflicts, the Montana Department of Fish and Game
    is advising hikers, hunters, and fishermen to take extra
    precautions and keep alert for bears while in the field.
    We advise that outdoorsmen wear noisy little bells on
    their clothing so as not to startle the bears that aren't
    expecting them. We also advise outdoorsmen to carry
    pepper spray with them in case of an encounter with a
    bear.

    It is also a good idea to watch out for fresh signs of bear
    activity. Outdoorsmen should recognize the difference
    between black bear and grizzly bear poop. Black bear poop
    is smaller and contains a lot of berry seeds and squirrel fur.
    Grizzly bear poop has little bells in it and smells like pepper
    spray."

    Add in a few .357 and/or 9mm bullets in there.
    Charlie Co. 101st Assault Helicopter Battalion (Wings of the Eagle), 101st Airborne Division (Airmobile)
    Phu Bai, Vietnam 1971-72

  13. #72
    VIP Member Array G26Raven's Avatar
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    I carry 9mm daily and am comfortable with its abilities. I carry 10mm when in bear country.
    So many weapons, so little time.

    Learning occurs only after repetitive, demoralizing failures.

    We are ALL Virginians!

  14. #73
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    I'm in black bear country a lot (right around here where I live) on backcountry fishing trips. Seen lots bear scat and more than a few big bears. I basically just try to be aware and stay out of their way. I'm not confident in a handgun to stop a determined one, and not willing to carry a rifle along with all my other stuff. I carry, but more for two-legged meth heads that can be present.
    Charlie Co. 101st Assault Helicopter Battalion (Wings of the Eagle), 101st Airborne Division (Airmobile)
    Phu Bai, Vietnam 1971-72

  15. #74
    VIP Member Array SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SatCong View Post
    One could also make a good argument that the .454 Casull Magnum was a true .45 Magnum round. In 1972, it used a triplex powder load and developed 2000 fps with 2100 ft/lbs of energy. I would make a clear penetration of 1/4" boiler plate steel. It have the Guns & Ammo magazine which covers this caliber and load and the 5-shot revolver with launched it. Pretty amazing power.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    America First!

  16. #75
    VIP Member Array SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    I live in North Dakota. heavy clothing does not stop bullets.
    Newer said it would stop a bullet but that it was an impediment to the bullet's flight to its target.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    America First!

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