Different calibers for different situations? - Page 6

Different calibers for different situations?

This is a discussion on Different calibers for different situations? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA One could also make a good argument that the .454 Casull Magnum was a true .45 Magnum round. In 1972, it ...

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Thread: Different calibers for different situations?

  1. #76
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
    One could also make a good argument that the .454 Casull Magnum was a true .45 Magnum round. In 1972, it used a triplex powder load and developed 2000 fps with 2100 ft/lbs of energy. I would make a clear penetration of 1/4" boiler plate steel. It have the Guns & Ammo magazine which covers this caliber and load and the 5-shot revolver with launched it. Pretty amazing power.
    Had a 454 Ruger Alaskan, fired one cylinder, then cleaned it, and logged it into the books at the shop and it went in the case for sale. Ordered the 44mag Alaskan that same day. I've fired that 44mag for hundreds of rounds, sometimes 150 rds in a 2 hour session with no ill affects. It's accurate enough to stay on my steel chest size plates at 100 yrds but would likely be used inside 10 yrds in a real world setting.

    Having the horsepower is great, being able to make follow up shots with that 454 is a challenge, for me anyway, while the 44mag doesn't give pause firing hundreds of rounds through it in practice.

  2. #77
    VIP Member Array SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    Had a 454 Ruger Alaskan, fired one cylinder, then cleaned it, and logged it into the books at the shop and it went in the case for sale. Ordered the 44mag Alaskan that same day. I've fired that 44mag for hundreds of rounds, sometimes 150 rds in a 2 hour session with no ill affects. It's accurate enough to stay on my steel chest size plates at 100 yrds but would likely be used inside 10 yrds in a real world setting.

    Having the horsepower is great, being able to make follow up shots with that 454 is a challenge, for me anyway, while the 44mag doesn't give pause firing hundreds of rounds through it in practice.
    I've owned three revolvers in .44 Magnum and still own one of them. A fine caliber and capable of taking any large animal on earth, as proven by Larry Kelly and Robert Peterson. My Ruger Redhawk .44 Magnum with a 5 1/2" barrel and Ruger's "hunting sights (mid '80s) is very accurate. Longest shot I have ever taken with a handgun was 200 meters (656 feet) with my Ruger Super Blackhawk. It was loaded with 240 grain JHP Sierra bullets over 22 grains of 2400 powder. Took two shots at that distance from a rest (open sights) on a metallic handgun silhouette range at a hanging steel ram. Hit it on the second shot.

    I always handloaded my .357 and .44 Magnum loads back then. That way I knew what I had, what the ballistics were, and what to expect from the loads I produced. Killed a deer with my Ruger Blackhawk .357 "3-screw" with a 6 1/2" barrel. That load was a 160 grain Norma JHP bullet over 16 grains of 2400 powder. It pulverized the top of that deer's heart.
    AzQkr, xXxHeavy, Bad Bob and 1 others like this.
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  3. #78
    Senior Member Array Gunnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardluk1 View Post
    badbod & flintlock My reply was related to FLINTLOCK 62 ( mudding the waters reply ) of his brite idea of a 357sig was a good idea for a Woods Walk . Understand ?? The 357sig is nothing special was my point . Not better or as good as the 40sw he already has . I hunt with a 357mag or 44mag too so Bad Bob , Big Deal ! But I have killed a couple deer with a 40sw when the show up under a tree stand .
    Not to muddy the waters however if my choice was 40 or 357 sig for a woods cartridge Iíd take 357 sig it penetrates more then 40s&w almost every time. As for load selection someone above mentioned that above 125 it doesnít do so hot. Double tap loads a woods specific 357 sig thatís a 180gr hard cast gas checked bullet traveling 1050. They load a 200gr 40 in the same type loading however with the smaller frontal area and same velocity Iíd choose the smaller diameter for increased penetration. I think everyone could agree that that for a woods specific weapon a larger caliber is warranted. However 357 sig just like 357 magnum can perform well in the role with the proper bullet selection.

    ETA: as for the lucky gunner lab test they did a descent job compiling data but they didnít scratch the surface for available loads in either. As for 357 sig they tested the Air Marshal Reduced penetration load in Speer Gold Dot when the standard gives almost 4Ē more penetration. So their comparison of 357sig I fell was a little scewed as they left a lot out and could have gave a far better comparison.
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  5. #79
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
    Newer said it would stop a bullet but that it was an impediment to the bullet's flight to its target.
    It does not impede it either.
    A man has got to know his limitations.

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  6. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardluk1 View Post
    badbod & flintlock My reply was related to FLINTLOCK 62 ( mudding the waters reply ) of hisbright idea of a 357sig was a good idea for a Woods Walk . Understand ?? The 357sig is nothing special was my point . Not better or as good as the 40sw he already has . I hunt with a 357mag or 44mag too so Bad Bob , Big Deal ! But I have killed a couple deer with a 40sw when the show up under a tree stand .
    Did you read the article I linked about bear self defense shootings?

    The only big bear that was not stopped by the 357 magnum was not hit.

    Did you not understand that whether this pistol or that pistol is suitable for the task, depends on the task?

    The 357 magnum is up to the task if you are. I get it you do not like the 357 Sig, but to say that the 40 S&W is better is not truthful. I asked what you had to back up that statement........Crickets.....Kills made when stand hunting? How noble, that takes skill......
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  7. #81
    VIP Member Array SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    It does not impede it either.
    Certainly it does. Even a rifle bullet striking a branch twig will be impeded. Perhaps not by much but it will still suffer to some degree. Once again, my point was heavy clothing and what could be in that clothing. In my SD loads I what the best I can find in the caliber I happen to be using for a given gun. I have to take into consideration things over which I have no control. I see a perp's clothing, body size and structure, and a number of other things to be potential impediments to my chosen caliber and load and I have no control over those.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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  8. #82
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
    Certainly it does. Even a rifle bullet striking a branch twig will be impeded. Perhaps not by much but it will still suffer to some degree. Once again, my point was heavy clothing and what could be in that clothing. In my SD loads I what the best I can find in the caliber I happen to be using for a given gun. I have to take into consideration things over which I have no control. I see a perp's clothing, body size and structure, and a number of other things to be potential impediments to my chosen caliber and load and I have no control over those.
    OK, you win. I do the same as I did for a career in LE. I carry the same gun, same load whether I am working in south Texas, San Diego or North Dakota.
    A man has got to know his limitations.

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  9. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXxHeavy View Post
    Well, save the last round for yourself....a 9mm is no round for big bear in a self-defense situation and that's what your relying on....can't tell ya how many .357 cal. slugs we've seen lodged just under the skin on big bears, never making it through the strong muscle layer and heavy bone structure of a large animal.....after many years of carrying a Model 19 with Norma Ammunition I finally conceded....it's the 44mag that gets it done with 240 gr. hardcast....everything else is a toss up.
    If you look up the number of life threatening encounters with grizzlies/brown bear where the person is armed with a pistol you will see that the success rate for 9mm is 100%....it is for a few different calibers as well.
    Granted I personally have never had to shoot a grizzly/brown bear, but have on many occasions taken black bear with no problems.
    The numbers are in direct opposition to your anecdotal experiences.

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  10. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
    One could also make a good argument that the .454 Casull Magnum was a true .45 Magnum round. In 1972, it used a triplex powder load and developed 2000 fps with 2100 ft/lbs of energy. I would make a clear penetration of 1/4" boiler plate steel. It have the Guns & Ammo magazine which covers this caliber and load and the 5-shot revolver with launched it. Pretty amazing power.
    Why stop, you can shoot a 454 Casul and when you want to step it up and go with a 460 S&W.
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  11. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackpackHunter View Post
    If you look up the number of life threatening encounters with grizzlies/brown bear where the person is armed with a pistol you will see that the success rate for 9mm is 100%....it is for a few different calibers as well.
    Granted I personally have never had to shoot a grizzly/brown bear, but have on many occasions taken black bear with no problems.
    The numbers are in direct opposition to your anecdotal experiences.

    Esse quam videri
    Where has anyone gathered all the encounter statistics so that you determined the 9mm was 100% successful? Did it include every one, or every one of one writer's experience? I've never had a real woodsman/hunter recommend a 9mm even for a deer...much less a grizzly or a brown. My % guess is that if you poll 100 EXPERIENCED woodsmen/hunters, 100% of them would say you're nuts to rely on a 9mm against a grizzly or a brown...but that's just a GUESS...not being put forth as fact.
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  12. #86
    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackpackHunter View Post
    If you look up the number of life threatening encounters with grizzlies/brown bear where the person is armed with a pistol you will see that the success rate for 9mm is 100%....it is for a few different calibers as well.
    Granted I personally have never had to shoot a grizzly/brown bear, but have on many occasions taken black bear with no problems.
    The numbers are in direct opposition to your anecdotal experiences.

    Esse quam videri
    That's known encounters. If you can startle a charging animal out of its rush, then the odds are good you will live. Most predators are like people, they want to win with little to no cost of damage to themselves. It's the ones that are more determined that make the bigger and heavier rounds better. Angry bears can be like drugged up people. Unstoppable outside of massive physical trauma or death.

    Like others here, I have been very close to bears more than once in the woods and never had any problems. The thing is, the more contact I have with them, the more likely my luck is to run out with being safe. Outside of the largest bears in the state I know my .357 mag round will kill them. At least fast enough to probably keep me alive too.

  13. #87
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    I owned 5" and 8 3/8" S&W 460 magnum revolvers. They were a handful for recoil. Not only was the recoil stiff, but they also torqued in your hand making follow-up shots more difficult. I sold all of my S&W revolvers with internal locks. I now own a 7 1/2" Ruger Super Redhawk .454 Casull. The recoil is manageable for me. A friend has an original 7 1/2" Freedom Arms .454 Casull. We took them to the gun club one day and had a shoot-off. We both agreed the Ruger Super Redhawk is much more pleasant to shoot with full power loads.

    Different calibers for different situations?-super-redhawk-1024x768-2017_01_22-17_26_42-utc-.jpg
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  14. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardluk1 View Post
    badbod & flintlock My reply was related to FLINTLOCK 62 ( mudding the waters reply ) of his brite idea of a 357sig was a good idea for a Woods Walk . Understand ?? The 357sig is nothing special was my point . Not better or as good as the 40sw he already has . I hunt with a 357mag or 44mag too so Bad Bob , Big Deal ! But I have killed a couple deer with a 40sw when the show up under a tree stand .
    Glad you think my idea is brite! I bet you think Iím as dumb as a rock.
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  15. #89
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    I know nothing about shooting bears with a handgun.
    I DO know from previous experience that an M60 will flat out take down water buffalo.
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  16. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snub44 View Post
    Where has anyone gathered all the encounter statistics so that you determined the 9mm was 100% successful? Did it include every one, or every one of one writer's experience? I've never had a real woodsman/hunter recommend a 9mm even for a deer...much less a grizzly or a brown. My % guess is that if you poll 100 EXPERIENCED woodsmen/hunters, 100% of them would say you're nuts to rely on a 9mm against a grizzly or a brown...but that's just a GUESS...not being put forth as fact.
    I'm an experienced hunter. Most "experienced" hunters will tell you a 223 is too small for deer, yet given the right ammo it will blow a 2" hole thru a deer. Hence me not caring so much about "conventional" wisdom as it is colored heavily with anecdotal experience and "my hunting buddy says" or "my daddy said" nuggets of knowledge.
    I will look up the study and post it here later.

    Esse quam videri

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