Tactical question for LEOs

Tactical question for LEOs

This is a discussion on Tactical question for LEOs within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; As a concealed carrier, I think most of us try to think about and consider the possible scenarios We could find ourselves in and how ...

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Thread: Tactical question for LEOs

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    New Member Array gwallis's Avatar
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    Tactical question for LEOs

    As a concealed carrier, I think most of us try to think about and consider the possible scenarios We could find ourselves in and how We would respond. However, the scenario of coming up behind an armed “bad guy” or getting the drop on them is one I’m not sure how should be safely handled. For instance, if someone broke into my house and they had a gun, but I was able to get behind them gun drawn with out their knowledge, how do I get their attention and let them know I have a gun and the upper hand with out completely startling them and have them possibly instinctively spin around with a gun possibly forcing me to shoot? I assume the LEOs have probably had training or most likely real world experience with how to handle this type of situation without increasing the chance of requiring deadly force. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

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    Senior Member Array Frodebro's Avatar
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    Obviously much depends on the laws in your area, but where Iím at, if someone breaks into my house theyíre fair game for responding with deadly force. No getting their attention is necessary. Playing fairly with criminals only puts you at a dangerous disadvantage.

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    New Member Array gwallis's Avatar
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    Then I guess a better scenario would be if your in public let’s say in line at the register at a gas station and the person in front of you pulls a gun on the clerk. Do you draw? And if you do since your inside your “castle” the legality and implied right to protection is different so how do you draw and avoid a shootout?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwallis View Post
    Then I guess a better scenario would be if your in public letís say in line at the register at a gas station and the person in front of you pulls a gun on the clerk. Do you draw? And if you do since your inside your ďcastleĒ the legality and implied right to protection is different so how do you draw and avoid a shootout?
    In my state you have an equal right to protect another with deadly force. They pull on someone else, if it doesn't place my children in jeopardy, then the assailant is fair game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwallis View Post
    Then I guess a better scenario would be if your in public letís say in line at the register at a gas station and the person in front of you pulls a gun on the clerk. Do you draw? And if you do since your inside your ďcastleĒ the legality and implied right to protection is different so how do you draw and avoid a shootout?
    If you draw on him, what do you do with his buddy on your six?
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    VIP Member Array SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwallis View Post
    Then I guess a better scenario would be if your in public letís say in line at the register at a gas station and the person in front of you pulls a gun on the clerk. Do you draw? And if you do since your inside your ďcastleĒ the legality and implied right to protection is different so how do you draw and avoid a shootout?
    You are under no obligation or expectation to defend others, especially those unknown to you. That is going to be your decision to take, based upon the laws of your state of course.
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    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    This is a question that is next to impossible to answer. The best answer is IT DEPENDS. That means there are dozens of factors that are specific to each different situation.

    You should start with the particular laws of your state - and please, download a copy of your state laws in pdf form and read them through first. Do not trust what someone tells you on the internet, unless they are a lawyer licensed to practice criminal law in your state, and willing to take you as a client.

    In the final analysis, the bottom line is simple: If you believe you may have to shoot (and your state laws allow for defense of a third party) draw your weapon and move quietly and quickly to a position of cover. If the situation is otherwise, do not draw, just seek cover.


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    New Member Array gwallis's Avatar
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    Thanks Oldchap, the question was intended as less of a legal question and more of a tactical question of how to approach the scenario. Mainly cause if the guys back is turned and we’re in public and he’s not in my house at 1 a.m. (to me implying seemingly more nefarious intentions, which is probably I’ll guided) I’m not gonna just draw and shoot him in the back, but I don’t want to draw and have him turn around and shoot me cause I demanded him to drop the gun. I also don’t feel right letting a innocent person get shot over $100 in the register when I possibly had the means to prevent it.
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    Senior Member Array Frodebro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwallis View Post
    Thanks Oldchap, the question was intended as less of a legal question and more of a tactical question of how to approach the scenario. Mainly cause if the guys back is turned and weíre in public and heís not in my house at 1 a.m. (to me implying seemingly more nefarious intentions, which is probably Iíll guided) Iím not gonna just draw and shoot him in the back, but I donít want to draw and have him turn around and shoot me cause I demanded him to drop the gun. I also donít feel right letting a innocent person get shot over $100 in the register when I possibly had the means to prevent it.
    Honestly, in a public place my first instinct would be to remove myself from the area as quickly and safely as possible.
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    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    @gwallis Your last sentence says it all. Some boldly proclaim they will always only protect themselves and everyone else is at the mercy of the potential killer. That is a fine position for bravado, but in real life, at least those I have worked with, insist that if they had it all to do over again, they would act differently. The end result of having the ability to prevent someone dying, and doing nothing about it, is just too terrible to contemplate.
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    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
    You are under no obligation or expectation to defend others, especially those unknown to you. That is going to be your decision to take, based upon the laws of your state of course.
    Absolutely true. However, I'm remembering a video format force-on-force class I took at the NRA HQ in Fairfax. Similar "second in line at the cash register" situation. I didn't draw because the BG looked like he got what he came for and was leaving.

    But then the BG shot the clerk and immediately turned around and shot me. Had I drawn and fired at first sight of the gun, I would have saved the clerk's life and mine. Yes, it was a simulation, but not an unrealistic one, I think. My guess is some bad guys pretend they are not going to shoot in order to gain compliance, but once they get what they want, they don't want witnesses.
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    VIP Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    What if you miss and hit the victim? You still need to be aware of who or what is beyond your target. Changing your angle of fire toward the perp is good thing. Also good is finding a place of cover before challenging. In the store clerk scenario I might be inclined to take cover (or at least concealment) and monitor the situation to see if the perp looks like he's going to shoot even after getting the money. As OldChap said, it depends.
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    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    What if you miss and hit the victim? You still need to be aware of who or what is beyond your target. Changing your angle of fire toward the perp is good thing. Also good is finding a place of cover before challenging. In the store clerk scenario I might be inclined to take cover (or at least concealment) and monitor the situation to see if the perp looks like he's going to shoot even after getting the money. As OldChap said, it depends.
    I agree it depends. But in the force-on-force scenario I described, there was no "looking like he's going to shoot." He just shot the clerk and me, bang, bang. I think the learning with that scenario is how fast it can happen. And there isn't much cover or even concealment near the register in a lot of stores. But everyone has to decide in the moment.

    I really liked the video force-on-force because it was pretty realistic. The lessons burn into your brain almost like they actually happened.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    This is a question that is next to impossible to answer. The best answer is IT DEPENDS. That means there are dozens of factors that are specific to each different situation.

    You should start with the particular laws of your state - and please, download a copy of your state laws in pdf form and read them through first. Do not trust what someone tells you on the internet, unless they are a lawyer licensed to practice criminal law in your state, and willing to take you as a client.

    In the final analysis, the bottom line is simple: If you believe you may have to shoot (and your state laws allow for defense of a third party) draw your weapon and move quietly and quickly to a position of cover. If the situation is otherwise, do not draw, just seek cover.


    Welcome to DC by the way, from the Texas Gulf Coast.
    I would add, join your local state organization. In Georgia the real organization is Georgia Packing. Most states that I am aware of have a state pro-2A organization that will be able to give you up-to-date information on the rules and regulations specific to you in that state. NRA is often woefully out-of-date on the advice they give for Georgia (easy to understand since they haven't been actively involved in any of the 2A initiative here in years) and other online sources can be just as out of date.
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