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Are pocket/sub compact guns still a viable option in the age of mass shooters

This is a discussion on Are pocket/sub compact guns still a viable option in the age of mass shooters within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by forester58 Lots of states don't require a license from the Government to carry (12, I believe). Should we not be carrying? 10% ...

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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by forester58 View Post
    Lots of states don't require a license from the Government to carry (12, I believe). Should we not be carrying? 10% of the adult population is certainly a much bigger number than 10% of "licensed carriers".
    What I meant was that most license holders don't carry.
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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array forester58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    What I meant was that most license holders don't carry.
    True that!

  3. #18
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    You donít have to be undergunned even with pocket pistols.

    You can carry two, with greater discretion than even just one belt carried gun.

    You can carry multiple reloads, often more easily than even just one larger double stack mag.

    I frequently carry two pocketed LCPs...plus a spare mag...plus two more in my briefcase or on my ankle...plus a ballistic panel in that briefcase

    So if you get creative you can be well armed even with smaller guns.

    That said, my only goal in a shooting is to get my family out of there.
    "You talk a lot, but you're not saying anything" - Psycho Killer, The Talking Heads

    "The winds are crying, 'Remember me;' Through the Holy silence of the desert and the sea; The next armada, waiting for the tide; Wind and rain are nothing to the storm inside" - Running on the Rocks, Shriekback

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  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    ...That said, my only goal in a shooting is to get my family out of there.
    Truth there in a mass shooting situation. Agreed. For me, that's just my wife (and me if possible).
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  6. #20
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    I've been giving a lotta thought about this, and I'm really beginning to believe that the other means of protecting ourselves is to secure a defensive shotgun in the trunk, in a locked case, or locked soft case, with a box of slugs and Number 4 buck...... My other preference is to carry a full size Handgun (Beretta92FS / 92 compact/ Sig 226 or similar, or a 1911.... 3 spare mags, AND a few extra mags / ammo in the trunk ..... Just my own feelings... YMMV..
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  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Any weapon is at a disadvantage against a rifle, other than another rifle, M203, or airsupport.
    Body armor defeats pretty much every handgun round or caliber, unless it is designed for that.

    I did this video with that in mind. Remember, your job is to survive, not to stand around and slug it out with an active shooter. If you can put a few rounds in him, in a hit and move type of tactic, you have caused him damage, and possibly put an end to his activity.

    No one can dictate what you can make due with but you.


    I have no doubt I can make hits out to 50 yards and beyond if I slow down a little.

    Side note: I like how the Rooster crows at 1:30 when you reveal the Colt 1911! Dayum-Right!
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  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jjones45 View Post
    ... But what if youíre caught in a situation where you need to take a shot at a clearly more heavily armed shooter than you at at distance to get a head shot, pelvic, or leg shot to immobilize the threat or at least slow him down. Do you have confidence in your m&p shield, ruger lc9/lcp, walther pps, bodyguard 380, small j frame revolver, sig p365, Glock 43, etc...... that you can take a precision shot at 25-50 yards or so when need be? Not to mention the limited capacity of these smaller guns vs the 100 round drum mags or 30 round standard mags that are used in common sporting rifles. .....

    For example at my Walmart you can take cover behind the open top frozen meat cooler in the meat department and have a vantage point at quite some distance in almost every direction. I was just thinking in the summer I would much prefer just a small single stack that I forget is even there and then these incidents take place to put me right back to my original mind set.What do you think, are pocket guns and small single stacks with short barrels and sight radiuses still viable in the trending era of cowardly mass shooters who are heavily armed and wearing body armor?
    I don't carry for "active shooter" situations. If I did, I'd carry a DDM4 or something, along with some body armor and a helmet, and then I'd have a whole 'nother set of problems.

    Seriously, I don't give my carry choice a second thought in light of an active shooter report. I either carry a J-frame w/38 special or a Defender .45. I can hit targets at 25 yards...but I've never had my targets shooting back at me with a long gun, and I'm not going to trade rounds with a long gun. The only situations where I would have to engage and go forward are 1) if I'm separated from my loved ones and I need to get to them; or 2) I'm cornered.

    I'm a civilian. I'm not a cop wearing a vest and with fellow officers as backup. I'm not ex-military with combat experience. I'm quite confident I will be trying to get the heck out of Dodge.

    As for your Walmart meat cooler, I recommend you know where the entry to the back of the store is, and figure out how to get from the meat cooler to the back exit....if you have a vantage point at quite some distance at every direction, you can also be seen at quite some distance from every direction.

    Relax. Worry more about the inattentive or drunk driver smashing into you than the random active mass shooter.
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  9. #23
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    We practice avoidance of stupid places, things and people with in reason. That's how I live my life again with in reason. At some point you are going to be at risk that's life. To a certain extent one can manage the exposure to risk but with that said it may not be your day. We all have to do the mundane things such as shopping and etcetera-etcetera. To a degree I can be selective of what, where and when, while conducting my daily affairs. I go armed but I suffer no illusion's, that is to say I'm not "Walter Mitty". Life is a gift what you do with it and how you conduct yourself determines the quality of your life. I can't and won't live in fear everyday of my being, but I can be prudent.
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  10. #24
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    Any gun that goes bang and bullets go out the barrel is viable in the event of a mass shooting. But viable does not mean suited to a task. it only means it is feasible. Feasible and effective are different things. A 380 with 2.5 inch barrel is feasible in such a confrontation but it is not likely effective unless you are close enough to get a potetially incapacitating shot. A compact with a 4inch barrel is likely to be more effective at even a greater distance, and a subcompact with 3 inch barrell is going to fall in between.

    My EDC is a PPS M2 loaded with 147 gr JHP. Could I incapacitate a perp with that gun? Sure, if the conditions are right. Will they be right? Who knows. However, I am not going to change my EDC because of mass shootings. I am prepared for possible everyday situations not for unlikely rare situations. If I were unfortunate enough to be in a mass shooting situation I am not going to take on a rifle in a pitched battle. I prefer to live. I am not going to make a futile attempt to accomplsh something I cannot because of ballistics, logisistics, etc. If I have the chance to intervene it will only be because I am close enough, not under fire, and accurate enough to get it done with a couple shots. If you cannot do it with a couple shots you are likley to be in a firefight with a rifle. That is bad,

    It is important to note that the average mass shooting lasts for 2 minutes or less so generally there is little time to act defensively by an offensive maneuver. any move would have to be spontaneous including the go-no go decision.
    Last edited by 1942bull; August 6th, 2019 at 11:14 PM.
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  11. #25
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    I carry a pocket pistol .... as a 2nd option with a larger pistol IWB.
    Pistol in weak hand front pocket gives me option to put my hand on it without revealing I'm carrying and quick access if dominant hand unavailable.
    I've been carrying a 2nd option pistol in pocket plus a larger pistol IWB for awhile.
    Minimal attire conceals a Glock 19 + spare mag + Kahr PM40
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    Are pocket/sub compact guns still a viable option in the age of mass shooters-summerpic2.jpg
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    I'm not inclined to disarm for a concert, game, (entertainment) and I ain't going on a plane or cruise.
    "Wouldn't want to or Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.

  12. #26
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    Of course a snubbie or pocket pistol are still viable.

    Even if you miss, most of these mass shooter turds are going to go commit suicide at the first sign of armed resistance.
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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebleyHunter View Post
    The average basement buffoon does one or both of the following when confronted with return fire:

    - ends the attack.

    - self terminates.

    A mag dump barrage out of a Beretta 950 would likely be all thats needed to break the assault.

    Sure, you COULD be facing that mythical ex-Spetsnaz operator who we seem to think is the typical spree shooter, not the loser Incel who bought his gun last week based off his favorite video game platform.
    You're right, but I hope we don't keep assuming active shooters will always be incompetent losers. In the Paris Charlie Hebdo shooting as well as the Kenyan mall shooting, just to name two, there were multiple coordinated attackers, with obvious training and solid tactical plans. There is nothing to say that can't happen here.
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  14. #28
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    Yes


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  15. #29
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    Nothing will disrupt an active shooter faster than someone charging forward with gun(s) blazing.


    I've got your six!
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  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jjones45 View Post
    ... But what if you’re caught in a situation where you need to take a shot at a clearly more heavily armed shooter than you at at distance to get a head shot, pelvic, or leg shot to immobilize the threat or at least slow him down. Do you have confidence in your m&p shield, ruger lc9/lcp, walther pps, bodyguard 380, small j frame revolver, sig p365, Glock 43, etc...... that you can take a precision shot at 25-50 yards or so when need be? Not to mention the limited capacity of these smaller guns vs the 100 round drum mags or 30 round standard mags that are used in common sporting rifles. .....

    For example at my Walmart you can take cover behind the open top frozen meat cooler in the meat department and have a vantage point at quite some distance in almost every direction. I was just thinking in the summer I would much prefer just a small single stack that I forget is even there and then these incidents take place to put me right back to my original mind set.What do you think, are pocket guns and small single stacks with short barrels and sight radiuses still viable in the trending era of cowardly mass shooters who are heavily armed and wearing body armor?
    I don't carry for "active shooter" situations. If I did, I'd carry a DDM4 or something, along with some body armor and a helmet, and then I'd have a whole 'nother set of problems.

    Seriously, I don't give my carry choice a second thought in light of an active shooter report. I either carry a J-frame w/38 special or a Defender .45. I can hit targets at 25 yards...but I've never had my targets shooting back at me with a long gun, and I'm not going to trade rounds with a long gun. The only situations where I would have to engage and go forward are 1) if I'm separated from my loved ones and I need to get to them; or 2) I'm cornered.

    I'm a civilian. I'm not a cop wearing a vest and with fellow officers as backup. I'm not ex-military with combat experience. I'm quite confident I will be trying to get the heck out of Dodge.

    As for your Walmart meat cooler, I recommend you know where the entry to the back of the store is, and figure out how to get from the meat cooler to the back exit....if you have a vantage point at quite some distance at every direction, you can also be seen at quite some distance from every direction.

    Relax. Worry more about the inattentive or drunk driver smashing into you than the random active mass shooter.
    I am relaxed and confident in my training and ability with my carry firearms. I was more interested in everyone else’s mind set, in particular those who carry smaller guns. The whole meat cooler thing came up because I was in Walmart in that area and was just looking around at structures that would be good cover or concealment, and a big freezer full of frozen meat that’s double wide seems to be about the best i seen. It’s low to the ground and hard enough to be real cover. The bad thing is you don’t get to choose where you are when the lunatic comes in shooting, you could be by the freezer, tv’s, sporting goods, housewares, or checkout. Worst case scenario you’re in his kill zone with no clear escape to the nearest exit or by bolting it to the rear emergency exit you chance on crossing into his sights. Yes, there is a lot of what ifs but as we have seen you could be in that situation any given time in the future anywhere in this country. It’s just a matter of when and where the next mass shooting will be, that’s the scary part. We play the lotto with hopes of winning impossible odds, but think of mass shootings as impossible odds of being a victim in. Everyone knows something is better than nothing, I’m not arguing that. By all means please just carry something or whatever suits you best. My plan for a while now has been to be prepared for the worst. For example, that’s why I wear a survival bracelet made of paracord in case I need a tourniquet, not that I plan on getting shot, but who does? A pistol in a rifle fight is bad odds but there has been cases of the handgunners taking down rifleman. I seem to remember a story of a guy with a beretta taking down a madman with a rifle at like 70 yards. Either way, another aspect of training is always good to add to your defensive shooting regimen. We don’t know how or when evil is coming our way. If we lived off stats alone we wouldn’t need to carry a gun at all because your chances of being a victim of a violent crime is pretty low as it is, especially if you’re not in a large or dangerous city. If we only plan for the 7-Eleven robber or carjacker that’s all we’ll be prepared for. I think outside of the box a little without getting too carried away or paranoid. Like I said though there’s really no wrong answer here, just opinions.

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