Are pocket/sub compact guns still a viable option in the age of mass shooters

Are pocket/sub compact guns still a viable option in the age of mass shooters

This is a discussion on Are pocket/sub compact guns still a viable option in the age of mass shooters within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This is just a thought/question that crossed my mind and really can’t have a wrong opinion but I value everyone’s opinion and take a little ...

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Thread: Are pocket/sub compact guns still a viable option in the age of mass shooters

  1. #1
    New Member Array Jjones45's Avatar
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    Are pocket/sub compact guns still a viable option in the age of mass shooters

    This is just a thought/question that crossed my mind and really can’t have a wrong opinion but I value everyone’s opinion and take a little from every thread I read. So here goes my dilemma or question for you all. With mass shootings seemingly becoming more and more common, or at least portrayed that way, are the single stack pocket guns and small sub compacts still viable options for edc? With these psycho shooters in a lot of these incidents wearing body armor and using AK and AR variants as their weapon of choice we are clearly at an disadvantage at distance and even outgunned in closer ranges. Let’s face it, a bodyguard 380 vs an AK47 is like bringing a pocket knife to a sword fight, in comparison of course. I understand you’re not likely to be in a mass shooting statistically speaking, but tell those people in El Paso and Dayton that. Most self defense shootings are at close range and over in a few rounds and the attacker hardly uses sporting rifles. We know this. But what if you’re caught in a situation where you need to take a shot at a clearly more heavily armed shooter than you at at distance to get a head shot, pelvic, or leg shot to immobilize the threat or at least slow him down. Do you have confidence in your m&p shield, ruger lc9/lcp, walther pps, bodyguard 380, small j frame revolver, sig p365, Glock 43, etc...... that you can take a precision shot at 25-50 yards or so when need be? Not to mention the limited capacity of these smaller guns vs the 100 round drum mags or 30 round standard mags that are used in common sporting rifles. To be honest I know I can make that shot under stress with probably only about 1/2 of my handguns and all of them are pretty much compact to full size, most notably my ppq 5” 9mm if given the choice. I’ve never carried pocket pistols or sub compacts as my main carry guns because I just like that Goldilocks compact size that’s small enough to conceal but large enough to fight with that’s become the motto for those who choose this size pistol. Making precision shots at distance has now become part of my range shooting and training and if I can’t do it with a particular pistol at least a majority of the time I carry something else. The guns I can make these shots with pretty consistently that I carry are my ppq’s (4” and 5”), cz 75 p01, Glock 19X, and hk p30. My other carry guns hit percentage and accuracy at distance doesn't fit my personal preference of being good enough in a potential stressful situation. These lunatics are planning for maximum carnage in a short period of time and my personal preference is to have a gun that I can get a precision shot with at distance if need be. Big stores like Walmart offer a lot of cover and having a long range shot at a perp isn’t out of the question the way most are laid out. For example at my Walmart you can take cover behind the open top frozen meat cooler in the meat department and have a vantage point at quite some distance in almost every direction. I was just thinking in the summer I would much prefer just a small single stack that I forget is even there and then these incidents take place to put me right back to my original mind set.What do you think, are pocket guns and small single stacks with short barrels and sight radiuses still viable in the trending era of cowardly mass shooters who are heavily armed and wearing body armor?
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  2. #2
    VIP Member Array G-man*'s Avatar
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    Any weapon is at a disadvantage against a rifle, other than another rifle, M203, or airsupport.
    Body armor defeats pretty much every handgun round or caliber, unless it is designed for that.

    I did this video with that in mind. Remember, your job is to survive, not to stand around and slug it out with an active shooter. If you can put a few rounds in him, in a hit and move type of tactic, you have caused him damage, and possibly put an end to his activity.

    No one can dictate what you can make due with but you.


    I have no doubt I can make hits out to 50 yards and beyond if I slow down a little.
    " Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight.Ē
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    VIP Member Array Chuck808's Avatar
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    Whether you have a J frame or a Glock 17 with a RMR, flashlight, compensator, and 2 spare mags, if the guy has a rifle and body armor, you are way under-gunned.

    Mass shootings are more common than they were 20 years ago, but that isnít saying much. Itís statistically a zero chance you will ever need to do anything against an active shooter. Having to deal with a guy robbing a gas station while youíre in line picking up a snack and a soda is wayyy more likely, and that is already incredibly unlikely.

    If you feel you want a more capable EDC loadout, go for it. Nothing wrong with it at all. For the last 9 months, Iíve downsized in what I carry. I used to carry full size guns and spare mags, but I lost a bunch of weight and now wear fitted clothing, which makes it much harder. Now I carry a Ruger LCR and donít really feel unarmed. Iíd carry a bigger gun if I could comfortably, but with my new body shape and clothing choices, I think a snub revolver is a great compromise.

    Iíd say they still have a place. If 10% of the adult population were all carrying a 5 shot snub each, we would be the safest place in the world.
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    Member Array Macantic's Avatar
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    like they say, something is better than nothing.
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    VIP Member Array WebleyHunter's Avatar
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    The average basement buffoon does one or both of the following when confronted with return fire:

    - ends the attack.

    - self terminates.

    A mag dump barrage out of a Beretta 950 would likely be all thats needed to break the assault.

    Sure, you COULD be facing that mythical ex-Spetsnaz operator who we seem to think is the typical spree shooter, not the loser Incel who bought his gun last week based off his favorite video game platform.
    Arkancide- Three self-inflicted gunshots to the head with hands tied behind the back.

    Active Shooter Response- Assess the situation, Position yourself to gain tactical advantage, Engage perpetrator violently (APE).

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    I used an M60 from a helicopter door in combat. That was when I was 18, had both eyes, and in the best combat training + physical shape I'll ever be in. Now I'm much older, slower, less capable, and have no inclination to take on anyone who is armed with a rifle/body armor in a mass shooting situation. Any handgun I have on me will be used for last-resort aid in cover/concealment/escape. If the assailant comes around my cover at close range, I'll shoot. Otherwise, it's escape.
    I have no illusions about taking on anyone armed like that with ANY pistol. My 9mm subcompact or .380 pocket pistol, whichever is on me, will have to do. I'll not be trying a hero 30-50 yard head shot on a moving target.
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    VIP Member Array G-man*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebleyHunter View Post
    The average basement buffoon does one or both of the following when confronted with return fire:

    - ends the attack.

    - self terminates.

    A mag dump barrage out of a Beretta 950 would likely be all thats needed to break the assault.

    Sure, you COULD be facing that mythical ex-Spetsnaz operator who we seem to think is the typical spree shooter, not the loser Incel who bought his gun last week based off his favorite video game platform.
    Yep. So far all we have seen are basement dwelling twerps.
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    Senior Member Array Bikenut's Avatar
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    If I must, absolutely must, take a 25 or 50 yard shot(s) with my G26 or my EC9s then things are so dire I better understand I might take a hit or two in order to slow down and make my shot(s) count. In that situation it wouldn't be me I was trying to save so taking the hits would have already been considered worth it.

    Otherwise perhaps the shooter would hit his head when he slipped in the brown trail I left behind heading for the nearest exit.
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    VIP Member Array G26Raven's Avatar
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    Carry whatever you feel comfortable with, both physically and mentally. I prefer to carry a double stack pistol with 15 rounds. I don't find it involves much effort to do that with a compact pistol, but it took me awhile to find the right combination of gear. But, you can have that now with a Sig P365 and it's almost like carrying nothing. And nobody ever walked away from a gunfight saying, "Gee, I wish I had less ammunition."
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    My rule of thumb is to always be as well-armed as I can practically be at any given time. Even following that rule, there are possible situations for which that would be insufficient. Iíll just have to do the best I can with what I have, whether it be a pocket 380 or a duty gun.
    "Lots of ways to help people. Sometimes heal patients; sometimes shoot dangerous people. Either way helps."
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  12. #11
    Member Array simple_man17's Avatar
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    A pocket gun on you is better than the duty gun in the car or at home because it is too big to conceal.

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
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    I dont recall any of the mass killers in recent history wearing body armor. I remember one wore a vest, but I havent heard of any actually having body armor. I also believe there was a mass murder where someone used a snub nose revolver to carry out the attack. From an arms standpoint, you will never be ahead of the guy coming in on a suicide mission planning to kill a bunch of people, because he doesnt care if he gets killed. You need to use to your advantage that you are probably smarter than that person to make good decisions to survive, and be better trained. I have said this several times, and I think its worth repeating. A mass murderer has pretty much anything that is commercially available at his disposal. Anyone can take their credit card, or even their parents credit card and go max it out with firearms and ammo purchases, because they know they will not have to pay it off. So with that in mind, switching from a jframe to even something like a glock 20 is going to be no match for anyone with a rifle, in terms of ballistics, or god forbid someone realizes they can go buy something like a 249S...or rent a box truck. Not saying you shouldnt carry a bigger gun that you can shoot better, but there are other things to think about, not just your caliber size and capacity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck808 View Post
    Whether you have a J frame or a Glock 17 with a RMR, flashlight, compensator, and 2 spare mags, if the guy has a rifle and body armor, you are way under-gunned.

    Mass shootings are more common than they were 20 years ago, but that isnít saying much. Itís statistically a zero chance you will ever need to do anything against an active shooter. Having to deal with a guy robbing a gas station while youíre in line picking up a snack and a soda is wayyy more likely, and that is already incredibly unlikely.

    If you feel you want a more capable EDC loadout, go for it. Nothing wrong with it at all. For the last 9 months, Iíve downsized in what I carry. I used to carry full size guns and spare mags, but I lost a bunch of weight and now wear fitted clothing, which makes it much harder. Now I carry a Ruger LCR and donít really feel unarmed. Iíd carry a bigger gun if I could comfortably, but with my new body shape and clothing choices, I think a snub revolver is a great compromise.

    Iíd say they still have a place. If 10% of the licensed carriers were all carrying a 5 shot snub each, we would be the safest place in the world.
    FIFY.
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    VIP Member Array LimaCharlie's Avatar
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    The longer the sight radius, the more accurate I am. The better the trigger, the more accurate I am.

    I have always preferred a 4" to 6" barreled revolver in .357 magnum or larger caliber or a 5" pistol in a .40 or larger caliber. I find a 5" 1911 is easy for me to carry concealed and has more rounds than a revolver. Reloads are easier to conceal and are quicker than a revolver. I shoot 5" 1911s better than any other pistol, especially at distances.

    My best compromise for every day carry is a 5" 1911 in .45 ACP or 10mm. The 10mm is flatter shooting at distances.
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    VIP Member Array forester58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    FIFY.

    Lots of states don't require a license from the Government to carry (12, I believe). Should we not be carrying? 10% of the adult population is certainly a much bigger number than 10% of "licensed carriers".
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