The .380 round for SD - Page 15

The .380 round for SD

This is a discussion on The .380 round for SD within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Holmes375 I like the good ol' Bill Drill. I always start off with it first in any session. I think its a ...

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Thread: The .380 round for SD

  1. #211
    Member Array since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes375 View Post
    I like the good ol' Bill Drill. I always start off with it first in any session. I think its a good drill to shoot "cold" and then practice on.
    Same here, and it's evolved over time. First shots at the range are after a minute or two of casual talk with a range buddy followed by his "Bogey" call, at which point I turn around, ID the target on which he's taped a gun silhouette, and attempt to put two through the heart and one through the head, all in less than a second from his "Bogey" call.

    It's not easy, cold. That's for sure. My range's closet targets are 15 yards. I'm lucky to hit it at all.

    After that, I work through slow fire, barrier, and multiple targets before doing the Bogey drill again with my last three shots.

    Interestingly enough, I'm usually worse! But over time, my cold Bogey calls are getting better.
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  2. #212
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    I carry a Glock 32 .357 SIG some days, so recoil is not an issue for me. I don't find the Bersa Thunder 380's to be too snappy for a blow-back pistol. I've owned several and they are underrated guns for sure.
    If you are traveling light, the Bersas are worth a look. I have the model below as well as the all nickel model which is really cool looking. Only real draw back is the 15 round mags are expensive and hard to find.

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  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talldog View Post
    I went to the range today for "9mm day." Only took my G26 and my G48. I was OK with the 48 (221 rounds), but the 26 really beat up my hands, which are still stiff several hours later. I put it away after 110 rounds. This has been coming on with the 26 for the past year with the arthritis and declining grip strength, and is why my future is .380. That 26 is the best carry gun I've ever owned, but I'm probably going to give it to my (younger) brother-in-law. Any gun that I can't practice a lot with is no good to me.
    I have mild osteoarthritis, mainly in joints I've injured, but also in under-used joints, as well.

    For years I played the bongos. Zero problems. Then, after a two-year hiatus from 2017 to this Spring, I picked it back up again. My knuckles and hands hurt quite a bit, so I quit again for two months, then eased back into it exponentially, first just one tap on each hand a day, the next day two taps, then four, 8, 16, 32, 64, etc. When I play, I average 480 bpm, so it took me about 9 days to break a minute. By two weeks I was playing more than half an hour straight, which is enough to run me through my usual favorites.

    If you have access to somewhere you can shoot where you don't have to pay for range time, consider doing the same thing.

    Here's just such a schedule, with two days of rest for cartilage healing and repair between firings:

    First, rest 6 weeks without shooting or any other significant stress. This is how long it takes cartilage to heal from repetitive stress.

    Then, warm up with a good walk, some arm-burners, squats, and other normal exercises before you shoot. It's important your joints are primed to take the stress.

    Day Shots Cumulative
    1 1 1
    2 rest
    3 rest
    4 2 3
    5 rest
    6 rest
    7 4 7
    8 rest
    9 rest
    10 8 15
    11 rest
    12 rest
    13 16 31
    14 rest
    15 rest
    16 32 63
    17 rest
    18 rest
    19 64 127
    20 rest
    21 rest
    22 128 255

    In three weeks, you'll have gone through 250 rounds of ammunition, with 128 on your last day.

    From then on, I'd limit things to shooting once a week to maintain the strength of the cartilage, but no more than a box of 50 rounds.

    If you find yourself not having shot for a while, work your way back up from the bottom.

    These are the same types of consistency of use, limits on maximum use, and intervals prescribed by professionals in the field of arthritis.

    Good luck!
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  5. #214
    VIP Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSafety View Post
    But then, even a .22 is better than a .000.
    But....but the .000 is REALLY concealable!

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  6. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    I have mild osteoarthritis, mainly in joints I've injured, but also in under-used joints, as well.

    For years I played the bongos. Zero problems. Then, after a two-year hiatus from 2017 to this Spring, I picked it back up again. My knuckles and hands hurt quite a bit, so I quit again for two months, then eased back into it exponentially, first just one tap on each hand a day, the next day two taps, then four, 8, 16, 32, 64, etc. When I play, I average 480 bpm, so it took me about 9 days to break a minute. By two weeks I was playing more than half an hour straight, which is enough to run me through my usual favorites.

    If you have access to somewhere you can shoot where you don't have to pay for range time, consider doing the same thing.

    Here's just such a schedule, with two days of rest for cartilage healing and repair between firings:

    First, rest 6 weeks without shooting or any other significant stress. This is how long it takes cartilage to heal from repetitive stress.

    Then, warm up with a good walk, some arm-burners, squats, and other normal exercises before you shoot. It's important your joints are primed to take the stress.

    DayShotsCumulative
    111
    2rest
    3rest
    423
    5rest
    6rest
    747
    8rest
    9rest
    10815
    11rest
    12rest
    131631
    14rest
    15rest
    163263
    17rest
    18rest
    1964127
    20rest
    21rest
    22128255

    In three weeks, you'll have gone through 250 rounds of ammunition, with 128 on your last day.

    From then on, I'd limit things to shooting once a week to maintain the strength of the cartilage, but no more than a box of 50 rounds.

    If you find yourself not having shot for a while, work your way back up from the bottom.

    These are the same types of consistency of use, limits on maximum use, and intervals prescribed by professionals in the field of arthritis.

    Good luck!
    Or just squeeze a rubber ball periodically. :)
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  7. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    I have mild osteoarthritis, mainly in joints I've injured, but also in under-used joints, as well.

    For years I played the bongos. Zero problems. Then, after a two-year hiatus from 2017 to this Spring, I picked it back up again. My knuckles and hands hurt quite a bit, so I quit again for two months, then eased back into it exponentially, first just one tap on each hand a day, the next day two taps, then four, 8, 16, 32, 64, etc. When I play, I average 480 bpm, so it took me about 9 days to break a minute. By two weeks I was playing more than half an hour straight, which is enough to run me through my usual favorites.

    If you have access to somewhere you can shoot where you don't have to pay for range time, consider doing the same thing.

    Here's just such a schedule, with two days of rest for cartilage healing and repair between firings:

    First, rest 6 weeks without shooting or any other significant stress. This is how long it takes cartilage to heal from repetitive stress.

    Then, warm up with a good walk, some arm-burners, squats, and other normal exercises before you shoot. It's important your joints are primed to take the stress.

    Day Shots Cumulative
    1 1 1
    2 rest
    3 rest
    4 2 3
    5 rest
    6 rest
    7 4 7
    8 rest
    9 rest
    10 8 15
    11 rest
    12 rest
    13 16 31
    14 rest
    15 rest
    16 32 63
    17 rest
    18 rest
    19 64 127
    20 rest
    21 rest
    22 128 255

    In three weeks, you'll have gone through 250 rounds of ammunition, with 128 on your last day.

    From then on, I'd limit things to shooting once a week to maintain the strength of the cartilage, but no more than a box of 50 rounds.

    If you find yourself not having shot for a while, work your way back up from the bottom.

    These are the same types of consistency of use, limits on maximum use, and intervals prescribed by professionals in the field of arthritis.

    Good luck!
    I'm rather beyond all that. I've actually been doing regular grip exercises, including the rubber ball and GripMaster Pro, for a few years now. They help, but it's still been a very gradual decline. I also shoot regularly, but there's no place I can shoot every day. My biggest problem though, is severe degenerative arthritis in the pinky finger of my shooting hand. The last (distal?) joint is beyond repair, and my orthopedist tells me that my only options are to either live with the pain or have the last two segments of the finger fused. Obviously, fusing is an absolute last resort and I have no intention of doing that if I can avoid it. Other than jamming the finger, which is excruciatingly painful, the only other regular thing I do that really bothers it a lot is shooting.
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  8. #217
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    Wow. Finally made it to the end. I'm not going to pretend I know what kind of pain you are in after shooting. I'm also not going to try to say I know everything about all guns. What I'm going to give is my impressions, and my opinion.

    As far as the .380 being an adequate SD round. I would say yes. But, it depends. You're going to want to make sure you get plenty of rounds down range with whichever gun you choose. You want to make sure that you are carrying the heaviest fastest rounds you can for it. A good example might be something along the lines of the Winchester PDX rounds. 95gr, approx 1000 fps. Between some of the pictures here, and watching Paul Harrell on YouTube, with his video of I think* the ec9s vs the lcp, and using a meat target, I'm convinced that it is adequate, however i wouldn't push it out past 12 to 15 yards if i didn't absolutely have to, and would prefer to keep it under 10 yards. Gun choice here is going to make a difference. A 4" barrel is going to make a fairly decent difference with this round, over a 2-3" barrel, and might allow for further distance.

    I am also a firm believer of carrying the biggest round that you can shoot accurately and without pain. I unfortunately came to this realization well after I bought my 40. If I had come to that before I bought it, I'd be carrying a 45. Theres nothing wrong with the round. I enjoy it, do not find it snappy, and am confident in my abilities with it. Unfortunately, i have only been to the range once in the past year or so. I tore a tendon in my right elbow, which has directly effected the strength of my grip on my gun. I can still shoot and control it, but until I get through the surgery and PT, I pay for 50 round range sessions for the next 2 to 3 days after.

    My last range day, i rented several 9mm, testing, so i can expand my carry options. I went through close to 100 rounds of 9mm that day without pain. The ones I focused on might be what interests you. I say this because this may open up other options for you. The main ones that I tried that stuck in my head were the Springfield XDs, the Remington R51, and the CZ 75. The Remington and CZ were heavier and more solid feeling and the XDs. I also felt less a lot lot less recoil withe those two. The R51 had a recoil that was more of a push almost straight back into the web of my hand. The CZ was heavy enough it absorbed the most of the recoil. These are interesting guns, and I actually would consider putting one of each into my collection at some point. The R51 also has a Crimson Trace option, if needed. Out of the two, the R51 was the easier to rack. That would be the one I would probably go for, if forced to only one of the two.

    This is not, in any shape or form, trying to talk you out of a 380. Just offering options that you may not have considered. It may be worth it to you to see if a local range has these available for rent.

    These are my $0.02, and my opinions. And you know what they say about opinions. My $0.02 might be worth what you paid for it, or, it might be worth a lot more, depending on how they work for you.
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  9. #218
    Senior Member Array KevinRohrer's Avatar
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    I have no doubt that in 10-years, when the FBI effeminates who couldn't qualify w/ the 38Spl, .357mag, 10mm, .40cal, or 45ACP, also can't qualify w/ the Wonder-9, they will do a "study" that says the .380 is the ultimate self-defense round and will using taxpayer money to buy all their agents the latest Tupperware in that caliber. Pass.
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  10. #219
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    For convenience, I often carry a .380 as my only weapon.
    When not carrying it, I carry an airweight 9mm J-frame.

    The .380 is about as effective as .38Sp, and maybe 2/3 as effective as 9mm.
    I don't feel undergunned with either.
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  11. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinRohrer View Post
    I have no doubt that in 10-years, when the FBI effeminates who couldn't qualify w/ the 38Spl, .357mag, 10mm, .40cal, or 45ACP, also can't qualify w/ the Wonder-9, they will do a "study" that says the .380 is the ultimate self-defense round and will using taxpayer money to buy all their agents the latest Tupperware in that caliber. Pass.
    For kicks and grins back in 1990, my friend and I set up a duplicate FBI qualification range. I deferred to his expertise, as he was a former U.S. Army MP, firearms instructor, and deputy sheriff.

    I exceeded the qualifications using my Ruger Super Redhawk .44 magnum, the same gun with which I hunted deer.

    For many years, however, a Walther PPK .380 ACP was my carry piece. Why? Because it was highly concealable and quite effective.

    Now... Are you going to continue to sling around disparaging crap like, "when the FBI effeminates" and "Wonder-9?"

    Or are you going to stop trying to measure one's manhood by the caliber of one's firearm?

    These days I carry a 15-round 9mm. It's nearly as concealable as my .380, but packs more punch and more rounds. It's also nearly identical to the 9mm I carried for decades in the military.

    I won't, however, disparage anyone who chooses to carry a .380. They're quite effective. In fact, I wouldn't at all mind picking up another Walther as a BUG.
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  12. #221
    Senior Member Array KevinRohrer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Now... Are you going to continue to sling around disparaging crap like, "when the FBI effeminates" and "Wonder-9?"

    Or are you going to stop trying to measure one's manhood by the caliber of one's firearm?

    These days I carry a 15-round 9mm. It's nearly as concealable as my .380, but packs more punch and more rounds. It's also nearly identical to the 9mm I carried for decades in the military.

    I won't, however, disparage anyone who chooses to carry a .380. They're quite effective. In fact, I wouldn't at all mind picking up another Walther as a BUG.
    Yes, I will continue to disparage sub-standard rounds for Police use or for SD when more capable rounds are available. But I have no doubt that your last statement is prophetic as far as the FBI is concerned.
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  13. #222
    Senior Member Array KevinRohrer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risasi View Post
    There can be only one...

    Attachment 299924
    He started out w/ a .25 Browning (?), then was forced to move to a PPK in .32 ACP. I don't think he ever made it to a .380.
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  14. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinRohrer View Post
    He started out w/ a .25 Browning (?), then was forced to move to a PPK in .32 ACP. I don't think he ever made it to a .380.
    He didn't need to move up. https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/396a684...1-aeb7bfd8c0a0
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  15. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinRohrer View Post
    Yes, I will continue to disparage sub-standard rounds for Police use or for SD when more capable rounds are available. But I have no doubt that your last statement is prophetic as far as the FBI is concerned.
    Then that's your measure.
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  16. #225
    Senior Member Array Holmes375's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinRohrer View Post
    Yes, I will continue to disparage sub-standard rounds for Police use or for SD when more capable rounds are available. But I have no doubt that your last statement is prophetic as far as the FBI is concerned.
    A 90 grain XTP JHP at 1200 fps from a G42 doesn't strike me as a sub-standard self defense round.
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